303 cases for x0x?

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phono
 
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303 cases for x0x?

Post by phono »

I just heard that technology transplant will be producing 303 and 606 cases in a few months, theres potential here for a pcb remake if anyone is up to the task. I know Ripe909 has already done this with an old 303 case.

Just with all the talk lately of new firmware and cpu, this would be the icing on the cake so to speak.

I think the important thing would be to have the pcb redesigned so that the synth circuit is as close to the layout of the original as possible, this may or may not help the tone of the x0x, but at least would take that question out of the equation. At the very least it would make perfect sense since it would have to fit in a 303 case.

Anyway just ideas for now, hopefully someone will pick this up and run with it.

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rv0
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by rv0 »

phono wrote:I just heard that technology transplant will be producing 303 and 606 cases in a few months, theres potential here for a pcb remake if anyone is up to the task. I know Ripe909 has already done this with an old 303 case.
i heard the same thing a couple of years ago and even had the chance to see and hold a "new" case when I was in germany.
still, i've never heard anything about it afterwards.

where did you hear it?

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phono
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by phono »

on the analog heaven mailing list

textile
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by textile »

Rock solid!
I sure hope this is true. I will be in on this.

3phase
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by 3phase »

an original board design makes sense never the less..

first ...
its smaller

second...
it probably effects the sound..

third...
the original 303 layout is just perfect for live playing... the xox just dont feels so nice when transposing and selecting patterns while turning the cutoff simultaniously.. the distances are just less comfortable

and..maybe 3rd party 303 housings might be a reality from time to time..

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paradigm x
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by paradigm x »

heh, call me cynical but i saw the 303 case on here recently and thought xoxen will start going for £1200 on ebay :lol:

Fiercefish
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by Fiercefish »

I hope he does make them, but I remember about 4 years ago he was going to be making 303 main pcbs but it never saw the light of day.

Personally I don't think it will alter the sound by using the same layout as a 303, there are far too many other factor way more significant IMHO

Also in some ways I actually prefer the x0x over the 303, once you put a bit of work in to get the nice square and resonance, I think it sounds great and has certain advantages.

Great news for all those worn out looking 303's though if he does make them, 2 of mine are in very good condition, but the black one could do with a new case.

3phase
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by 3phase »

probably even the material of the original 303´s board is effecting the sound

Fiercefish
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by Fiercefish »

I suppose it could, also things like different digital section, psu, component tolerances, internal gain/current structure, and probably a whole lot more besides. In fact I think it is quite remarkable how close we are able to get it as it is, given the large number of differences.

I guess some things matter more than others, but either way I am sure glad the x0xb0x exists, because almost all of the other "clones" do a much worse job. :wink:

By the way, your studies about the capacitors were very interesting.

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mazatta
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by mazatta »

3phase wrote:probably even the material of the original 303´s board is effecting the sound
Let's not go *too* far into the realm of audiophoolery ;)

http://www.eevblog.com/2009/09/07/eevbl ... ophoolery/

3phase
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by 3phase »

mazatta wrote:
3phase wrote:probably even the material of the original 303´s board is effecting the sound
Let's not go *too* far into the realm of audiophoolery ;)

http://www.eevblog.com/2009/09/07/eevbl ... ophoolery/
sorry man.. have you ever washed a 303 and heard what just oily dust is doing to the sound of an old 303 ?

there are defenetly parts of the 303 circuitry that react on the resistance between traces.. that for sure.. if that is just because the extremly small distances or relted to the board material? i dont know.. but its not unlikely that at least stray capacitys add to the smoother sound of a real 303.. i ve added some cappacity in my xox at the output and after the oscilator... it defently hurts less in the eras that way when you bring up the resonance...

thats one main feature in the real03 you can crank up the resonance and filter as you want but it never hurts ..even in the biggest pa´s. the xox on a big system most defently hurts !!

however.. i will implant a real 303 powers supply circuit in my xox.. it should sound the same than .. or other way around.. the sound differences left than might be related to board design than

when you look at the filter section of the xox that is so similar tight spaced than in the real 303 one might get the idea that "the german" has seen a certain importance in having the things similar located than in the real thing...

however.. i opose that this is audio foolery..but its defently still hypothetical..

lets say i was astonished how different an so similar circuit can sound .. and i only test with the original 303 power supply out of curiosity..

i will post my results when i have them in the forum...

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computer controlled
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by computer controlled »

I'd def be interested in this. Hopefully Cy will pull through with the cases!!! If not, time for a new case design!?

Mussi81
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by Mussi81 »

3phase wrote:
mazatta wrote:
3phase wrote:probably even the material of the original 303´s board is effecting the sound
Let's not go *too* far into the realm of audiophoolery ;)

http://www.eevblog.com/2009/09/07/eevbl ... ophoolery/
sorry man.. have you ever washed a 303 and heard what just oily dust is doing to the sound of an old 303 ?

there are defenetly parts of the 303 circuitry that react on the resistance between traces.. that for sure.. if that is just because the extremly small distances or relted to the board material? i dont know.. but its not unlikely that at least stray capacitys add to the smoother sound of a real 303.. i ve added some cappacity in my xox at the output and after the oscilator... it defently hurts less in the eras that way when you bring up the resonance...

thats one main feature in the real03 you can crank up the resonance and filter as you want but it never hurts ..even in the biggest pa´s. the xox on a big system most defently hurts !!

however.. i will implant a real 303 powers supply circuit in my xox.. it should sound the same than .. or other way around.. the sound differences left than might be related to board design than

when you look at the filter section of the xox that is so similar tight spaced than in the real 303 one might get the idea that "the german" has seen a certain importance in having the things similar located than in the real thing...

however.. i opose that this is audio foolery..but its defently still hypothetical..

lets say i was astonished how different an so similar circuit can sound .. and i only test with the original 303 power supply out of curiosity..

i will post my results when i have them in the forum...
how do you go about "washing" a 303?? i take it you dont get out the fairy liquid? lol :wink:

textile
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by textile »

Washing circuit boards is at your own risk. :!:

I have washed circuit boards before with warm water and a base detergent (no smell) and the results were fine. I did it on a sunny day and dried it up well.
The results were good.
I just wet the brush (soaped) and scrubbed the bottom and around the parts.

I can't find any 'official' way of cleaning circuits. I would like to know more.

Brassteacher
 
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Re: 303 cases for x0x?

Post by Brassteacher »

textile wrote:Washing circuit boards is at your own risk. :!:

I have washed circuit boards before with warm water and a base detergent (no smell) and the results were fine. I did it on a sunny day and dried it up well.
The results were good.
I just wet the brush (soaped) and scrubbed the bottom and around the parts.

I can't find any 'official' way of cleaning circuits. I would like to know more.
This isn't exactly what I would declare as "official", but this is basically what I was taught when I was working as a tech in a high-end audio repair shop that just happened to be an authorized service center for Bang & Olufsen (want to talk about a company that is super-anal about how their gear is worked on? :D ). The amount and type of cleaning was dependent upon quite a few different factors but, in general, :

1. Brush board & components with a dry, medium stiffness paintbrush to remove dirt and dust.
2. Use compressed air to remove dust.
3. Use spray "Flux Remover" and blast dirt and solder flux remnants from the board.
4. Use the above in conjunction with a stiff-bristled brush.
5. Let the board air-dry THOROUGHLY before applying power, and use compressed air to blow underneath larger components to make sure there is no condensation hiding there.

I strongly recommend that solder flux residue be removed from a board, even if it has been there awhile. I have seen the stuff eventually eat through the copper traces enough that the solder pads become electrically separated from the traces. It is so labor intensive to repair that it is more than worth the time to simply make sure the board is clean. That said, a lot of spray flux removers are NOT very environmentally friendly, and even less friendly to any living creature near the area of use, especially YOU. If you don't want to mess with the really nasty stuff, a friendlier alternative is Acetone (If you think Acetone is rough, you should see what's in the REALLY nasty stuff! :shock: ). Yes, Acetone is harsh, so the best alternative is Isopropyl Alcohol of 90% or more purity.

Another hint: If you see contact cement type glue holding electrolytic capacitors to the circuit board, and if that glue is starting to turn really dark brown, or even black, it is best to remove it. Pick at it with tweezers, or scrape it away with a dental pick or similar tool. That glue when it ages can, and eventually will, become conductive. Contrary to popular belief, it does not mean that the cap has leaked or vented.

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