SokkOS, new modified firmware
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by resonator on Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:44 pm

Sokkan wrote:By the way,

I added some stuff to the firmware a while ago. I didn't post it here for several reasons, waiting to see if the new CPU project took off among other.

Now, I am thinking of posting it anyway, it has triplets, MIDI transpose and transpose in edit mode. (*)
I still have a shitload(190 bytes) of code space left and I am thinking of adding sysex load/dump of patterns to eliminate the need of the pesky USB driver and all of the problems with it. I need a bit more than 190 bytes for that so it might take a while.

(*) I took away the apparently undocumented feature where you could enter notes in a fast way without pressing next since I needed a button press combination for toggling between regular 16ths and 8th triplets.

Oh, antto, if you are reading this, I still believe you could fit your code into the current CPU. I saved 500 bytes by playing with the compiler options. You do have to optimize quite heavy to minimize code size. If you are brave I believe moving to using llvm would do wonders. (Or a commercial compiler.)

Please comment on my ideas. :)

Glad to see you back, Sokkan. Looking forward to the new release. :)
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by 3phase on Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:10 am

Sokkan wrote:By the way,

I added some stuff to the firmware a while ago. I didn't post it here for several reasons, waiting to see if the new CPU project took off among other.

Now, I am thinking of posting it anyway, it has triplets, MIDI transpose and transpose in edit mode. (*)
I still have a shitload(190 bytes) of code space left and I am thinking of adding sysex load/dump of patterns to eliminate the need of the pesky USB driver and all of the problems with it. I need a bit more than 190 bytes for that so it might take a while.

(*) I took away the apparently undocumented feature where you could enter notes in a fast way without pressing next since I needed a button press combination for toggling between regular 16ths and 8th triplets.

Oh, antto, if you are reading this, I still believe you could fit your code into the current CPU. I saved 500 bytes by playing with the compiler options. You do have to optimize quite heavy to minimize code size. If you are brave I believe moving to using llvm would do wonders. (Or a commercial compiler.)

Please comment on my ideas. :)



triplets would be very nice.. would be great if you would reöease that version regardless wether the new cpu project takes off or not..
Or even when it takes off.. there still will be many xoxes around that wont have it.
i personally would prefer a tap input over a sysex dump ,, but sysex dumps would be nice of cause too.. i however like the dynamics of a fixed memory that represents the machines conten absolutly and grows and ages with the machine..where you have to erase a pattern to do a new one.. that leads over time time to a machine filled with good patterns..
therefore
in case you do a sysex dump i would prefer if ots singel pattern only.. so its just there to safe a some soecial patterns but not to replace the whole memory. To just force a memory organisation that grows from empty to full instead having a handfull global dumps... at least that is part of the original 303´s magic that it builds uo over time by the limitations of the memory management.
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by pACHE on Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:37 pm

Hello all,

I encounter a problem with my x0xb0x which seem to be sokkos related.
I just receive a x0xb0x for my birthday (isn't it a nice present! ) and it works very well except a problem while using midi play. I use my machinedrum to sequence my x0x and time to time (about 1 time every 2 minutes) the x0x stop playing for a couple of second. It usualy starts with a high pitch note (the same the you got when you are out of the note range), then nothing, then everything get back to normal. It's totally random !

You can listen to the problem here : http://soundcloud.com/pache/x0xverb at 0"28.

I recorded the midi notes from midi thru and it seems fine, so the problem is from the x0x.
I don't have this problem when I use the internal sequencer.
I use sokkos 1.9.1. and I cannot reproduce this behaviour with 1.05 os.

What do you think ? Do you have this problem too ?

Original thread here :
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19383&p=100177#p100132
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by Sokkan on Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm

pACHE wrote:I encounter a problem with my x0xb0x which seem to be sokkos related.
I just receive a x0xb0x for my birthday (isn't it a nice present! ) and it works very well except a problem while using midi play. I use my machinedrum to sequence my x0x and time to time (about 1 time every 2 minutes) the x0x stop playing for a couple of second. It usualy starts with a high pitch note (the same the you got when you are out of the note range), then nothing, then everything get back to normal. It's totally random !


I tried to reproduce it on both 1.9.1 and the 2.0 beta and unfortunately failed, I have no such problems here.

Could you post what you are sending to the x0xb0x, what tempo you're running at and tell me if you have several units on the same MIDI-chain receiving on other channels?

Any one else having the same problem except the two of you in the original thread?
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by pACHE on Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:50 pm

Sokkan wrote:
pACHE wrote:I encounter a problem with my x0xb0x which seem to be sokkos related.
I just receive a x0xb0x for my birthday (isn't it a nice present! ) and it works very well except a problem while using midi play. I use my machinedrum to sequence my x0x and time to time (about 1 time every 2 minutes) the x0x stop playing for a couple of second. It usualy starts with a high pitch note (the same the you got when you are out of the note range), then nothing, then everything get back to normal. It's totally random !


I tried to reproduce it on both 1.9.1 and the 2.0 beta and unfortunately failed, I have no such problems here.

Could you post what you are sending to the x0xb0x, what tempo you're running at and tell me if you have several units on the same MIDI-chain receiving on other channels?

Any one else having the same problem except the two of you in the original thread?


Thank you for looking into it.

I send a sequence of 8th note (whatever note, A4 for exemple) at 128bmp from the machinedrum. It just a direct cable from machinedrum to x0xb0x.
To make it easier to reproduce, run the same sequence @ 300bpm. I got this problem once every 2 minutes, but some time it works for 10 minutes so ....
I don't know if someone else is having the probleme. I did a research before posting and I have not found anything
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by Sokkan on Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:57 pm

pACHE wrote:I send a sequence of 8th note (whatever note, A4 for exemple) at 128bmp from the machinedrum. It just a direct cable from machinedrum to x0xb0x.
To make it easier to reproduce, run the same sequence @ 300bpm. I got this problem once every 2 minutes, but some time it works for 10 minutes so ....
I don't know if someone else is having the probleme. I did a research before posting and I have not found anything


I tried it on my machines here yesterday x0xb0x#1 -> x0xb0x#2 and the other way around for approximately half an hour without a single glitch.

Have you tried using any other machine for sending notes in a controlled manner to your x0xb0x? Have you tried a different MIDI-cable?

I can imagine that it is possible to choke the x0xb0x by sending huge amounts of data, but if you are using such a moderate speed and are not sending any other controller data(AT, velocity etc) I fail to see what could cause it. The MIDI receiving parts are almost untouched from 1.05, I only fixed the rest bug.

Could you have a look at the MIDI data you're sending with a tool such as MIDI OX?
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by pACHE on Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:51 pm

That's crazy, I cannot reproduce the problem today ! I switched back and forth from stock OS to sokkos to confirm that the problem appears only with sokkos, and the problem seems to be gone (I ran the same midi sequence for half an hour).
So I don't know what to think, it's maybe hardware related ... Maybe my x0x needed some warmup :)

Anyway thanks for your wonderful support, and of course for your amazingly good OS.

Cheer from France
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by 3phase on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:58 am

Hi Sokkan,

your OS has many great benefits and thanks for the nice work and sharing...

BUT... i ve problems with the XOX OS in general. And yours, based on that, helps.. but not enough to make me use the machine.

Problem.. i spend so much time in sourcing the original roland components and building a custom housing..trying mods aso that i really would like to use it..
Problem is the internal sequencer that makes writhing lines to a try on error on something that has all 16TH notes posessed ..goes over just one bar and dont behaves wright ..at least not when you are used for 20 years to a real 303.
you cant transfer real 303 lines to the xox..except they are the banned style 1 bar all 16 th posessed style and dont make use of slides. the gate time is wrong.. and how the slide sets in is wrong... but because the slide is also the legato that cant be worked around. so a xoxbox can never sound like a real 303 just by the sequencer design that messes important parameters like slide onset and gatelength..

That of cause is not sokkos related and just the legacy of the original OS that shows little understanding of what makes a 303 line funky.

That the xoxbos dokumentation states that theire sequencer is more easy to use is a joke.. i am not able to use this fast enough to get an idea down. At least not in timetight situations.
There is no way to do something specific in any spontanious way.. Its try and error for a big part..and that eats time and therefore inspiration.


So.. when you have removed an undocumented feature that allows quick note input its maybe a development in the wrong direction...
But ok..triplets are possible on a real 303..so its nice to get that too...
But i rather would give up on swing factors than on realtime input.. a 303 swings anyway ...


What i would like to suggest is to use your extra free bytes not for adding things a 303 dont has anyway,, i suggest to add something to the sequencer that makes sequence creation easier...


actually the concept of the sokkos os has good aspects .. its great for editing and altering an allready exsisting sequence,.. better than you ever could do on a real 303..- but.- the original sequence creation is a horrible dial in of 16th notes..
i get bored when i am half thru... its really a rubbish way to write sequences.. like in an tracker program..
really the most unadvanced sequencer input one can think of.

again..thats no critics on you..thats the legacy of the initial concept..you just expanded on that by allowing us to edit while running..and thats great..


However.. in short my suggestions..

note input while being in edit mode should be possible manually..
it should be possible to hear the sound engine while editing.. best in a fashion that playing a key overides the sequencer.. so while you have the key pressed you only hear that key and not the running sequence.. so you actually can use that mode to play variatons on a pattern life..

with a special write key you can record that manual play.. ..when you press that record key and dont touch any of the note buttons.. the sequence is written into itself..like in an echo with feedback loop... so everything just stays the same.. up to the moment you press a note key... than it takes just what you hear..playing just for long keys will result in 4 quarter notes that are automatical sustained..


a general problem that there is no sustain note in the xox.. ok.. somehow.. when you hold a note that gets recorded you automatical write that note in any 16th passing and add a slide tag..


when such a mechanism would come together with the ability to link patterns we would have a great realtime input base for musical ideas that than can be easily altered thanks to the good sokkos editing..

So a linked pattern is switching between the A and B part also in the editor.. and that at least for 2 bars.. better up to 4 like on the original 303..but 2 would be ok allready to escape the 1 bar goa stiffnes theese 303 clones are allways producing.
the on bar limitation is not a xoxbox speciality.. its a whole generation of developers that havent made it beyond one bar music that was into mimiking techno machines in software...

$ bars would be nice.. but as a compromize 2 bar linked would help a lot allready--
Its often the case that 4 bar patterns are just 2 bar patterns with variation.. so a 2 bar feel is much easier to expand on than on a onebar that is ratteling all the time dont leaving any space for an answer to a call.. what is a basic musical principal when using multiple sequenced devices..

What do i need to write good sequences?

i need the ability to play the notes on the instrument without attaching a midi keyboard to get an idea.. so the keyboard mode is actually missing.. or should at least be part of the editor as described..

and i need to be able to edit more than one bar while running..at least 2..


problem.. no available xoxbox os is providing theese basic core functionality of any sequenced roland machine..


the sequencer of a hardware device shouldnt force you to do it with an external one via midi..
I think the development of custom xox os´s should try to enhance the machine exactly there, and not just adding new toy functions on top of the initial problem..

so realtime input to catch ideas roughly and editable permanent linked patterns are missing.
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by 3phase on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:18 am

but .. as i still run the sokkos 1.9..

what is this undocumented feature for note input? maybe it helps allready...
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by pACHE on Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 pm

Hello, I noticed that REST/ACCENT/SLIDE does not work as expected in track edit mode. Bug or not implemented ?
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by Sokkan on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:45 pm

The reason SokkOS works the way it does is because that is how I want it to work. :)

I have been thinking of trying to implement the edit modes of a real 303, I'll see if I get the time...

The undocumented feature for fast note input is on the same combination as triplets, that is why I let it go, totally out of button combos. :mrgreen:
When toggled on the x0xb0x will immediately go to the next step whenever you press a note button or a rest.

The track edit mode is still stock, I never touched it.
How is the RAS buttons supposed to work in that mode and how do they work currently?
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by pACHE on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:22 pm

Sokkan wrote:The track edit mode is still stock, I never touched it.
How is the RAS buttons supposed to work in that mode and how do they work currently?


They do something like in pattern play but in clumsy way. The effect last until ... I don't know, maybe the start of a new pattern or something. It's totally unusable. There is a weird reset.
it's supposed to be the same thing than in pattern play (for me live control should not differ between pattern play and track play, don't you think ?)
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by 3phase on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:21 pm

Sokkan wrote:The reason SokkOS works the way it does is because that is how I want it to work. :)



sure.. when you like dialing in sequences tha slow way.. but thats in general castrating the machine.. in comparison tp a real 303..

and i dont think that its necessary to have 303 edit modes.. the single step style as we know it from th rerbirth emulation and now from the xox or various plug ins is surly an alternativ model to alter sequences that has its own advantages over the 303 style..its something different... but an alternativ.. for sure..


But thats independent form missing realtime input or playability of notes and multipattern abilitys..

that are missing features in all xox OS regardless which other internal sequencer philosophie is running..
And its a handicap for booth sequencer concepts when theese core functionalitys are missing.
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by Sokkan on Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:04 am

pACHE wrote:it's supposed to be the same thing than in pattern play (for me live control should not differ between pattern play and track play, don't you think ?)


Agree, I will look into it for the next update. :)
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Re: SokkOS, new modified firmware

by xlarge on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:42 am

* Press and hold CHAIN and press the TEMPO knob to completely erase a pattern in edit mode. It will be filled with EOP(end of pattern).

This doesn't seem to work. Oh, just tested it while it was running.. Then it works but not while stopped.

* Hold DONE and press the TEMPO knob to half the tempo(i e play 8ths) in play mode. This will still keep stuff in sync and it will only affect whole patterns to keep things lined up properly. Same combination to go back to normal mode.

Doing that in triplets and failing to press tempo knob ie just pressing "done" has an interesting effect.
It plays 3 or 4 notes on the next pattern in half tempo and then starts from 1 again, still in half tempo.
I can't reproduce in 4/4.
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