I am somewhat new to programming microprocessors. I used the IFI Robotics Controller, I have used [and loved] the Arduino, but I am looking at building some projects that will require a bunch of processors working in tandem. This means that $30 per Arduino is unacceptable. I have been looking into my options, and it seems as though AVR has the most community support, though PIC is used more widely. What are the benefits of each platform, which are more cost-effective, and which are easiest to program? Would I need to buy one of those $300 programmers for a PIC uP?
Also, I assume that programming a uP would be a real pain.. If people will spend $30 on a product to take that step away, when a raw uP costs just cents.
Thanks in advance!
AVR vs Arduino vs PIC vs Basic Stamp etc..
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- macegr
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Programming microcontrollers is actually pretty easy. It's not much worse than an Arduino.
The reason people buy the Arduino is the cross-platform development package and the fact that they don't have to wire up the processor before trying things out. It's a standardized platform and everything is tested to work together.
You can get AVR programmers for the price of an Arduino.
The reason people buy the Arduino is the cross-platform development package and the fact that they don't have to wire up the processor before trying things out. It's a standardized platform and everything is tested to work together.
You can get AVR programmers for the price of an Arduino.
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Re: AVR vs Arduino vs PIC vs Basic Stamp etc..
..or you can just download the arduino code to make it an avr-isp programmer here http://tinker.it/now/2006/12/04/turn-ar ... rogrammer/mtbf0 wrote:...or you can write an arduino sketch to make it an icsp programmer for other avr chips
- westfw
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Re: AVR vs Arduino vs PIC vs Basic Stamp etc..
It would be a shame to abandon Arduino, which you're familiar with, solely on the basis of cost. You can get cheaper arduino clones, starting with Adafruit's BoArduino ($17.50, complete kit. $5 PCB) and going down to $10 each for the Modern Devices "Really Bare Bones Board. ($2.50 PCB.)
Even if you step outside the Arduino programming environment and treat them like bare Mega168's, you'll still need something like those PCBs to mount them on and provide the basic infrastructure, and it'll be hard to beat the $5 price of a BoArduino PCB. This is one of the nice advantages of the whole Arduino "thing"; the boards are nice little platforms even if you think you've grown up too much to treat them as "Arduinos." The "real cost" of "Arduino" is about $2 - a $5-6 chip with pre-programmer bootload vs a $3-5 chip "empty" from an electronics distributor. (and as others have pointed out, you CAN get your existing ardunino to add the bootloader to bare chips for you...)
Meanwhile, the recommended "development" programmer for Pic chips these days is the PicKit2, which runs about $35 direct from Microchip, so you're not looking at $300 just to branch out to a different set of chips. You can get a basic programmer/eval board for almost ANY microcontroller for less than $100 these days, even something like a Freescale Coldfire (32bit CPU, 128k Flash, 16k ram, usb....) I think manufacturers have figured out that that's about the price point where engineers buy them like candy...
Even if you step outside the Arduino programming environment and treat them like bare Mega168's, you'll still need something like those PCBs to mount them on and provide the basic infrastructure, and it'll be hard to beat the $5 price of a BoArduino PCB. This is one of the nice advantages of the whole Arduino "thing"; the boards are nice little platforms even if you think you've grown up too much to treat them as "Arduinos." The "real cost" of "Arduino" is about $2 - a $5-6 chip with pre-programmer bootload vs a $3-5 chip "empty" from an electronics distributor. (and as others have pointed out, you CAN get your existing ardunino to add the bootloader to bare chips for you...)
Meanwhile, the recommended "development" programmer for Pic chips these days is the PicKit2, which runs about $35 direct from Microchip, so you're not looking at $300 just to branch out to a different set of chips. You can get a basic programmer/eval board for almost ANY microcontroller for less than $100 these days, even something like a Freescale Coldfire (32bit CPU, 128k Flash, 16k ram, usb....) I think manufacturers have figured out that that's about the price point where engineers buy them like candy...
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Re: AVR vs Arduino vs PIC vs Basic Stamp etc..
Remember that "Arduino" is really just a support environment for the Atmega168. You can buy the chips for a couple bucks (Mouser has the whole line for between $2-$4), load the Arduino bootloader onto them, upload your programs, and then transfer the chips to your project. You can still program each chip with the Arduino code without needing a whole Arduino kit for each microcontroller.
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Re: AVR vs Arduino vs PIC vs Basic Stamp etc..
Also, if you want the flexibility of raw AVR-GCC, Arduino hardware makes for an excellent AVR development board system.
Prototype and debug with the Arduino, then design a circuit with your multiple AVRs at a much lower cost (potentially porting into a smaller device).
Not sure where you got a $300 programmer from. I'm fairly certain MUCH cheaper PIC programmers exist, and cheaper AVR programmers definately exist - Adafruit's own USBTinyISP is an excellent one and kits are just over $20.
Prototype and debug with the Arduino, then design a circuit with your multiple AVRs at a much lower cost (potentially porting into a smaller device).
Not sure where you got a $300 programmer from. I'm fairly certain MUCH cheaper PIC programmers exist, and cheaper AVR programmers definately exist - Adafruit's own USBTinyISP is an excellent one and kits are just over $20.
Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.