Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

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knarleybass
 
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Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by knarleybass »

I am considering trading my TB-303 for one of those machinedrum sps-1uw mkii's I know once my 303 is gone it's gone... But the Elektron is petty cool, I need advice.

thanks


Bob

Gaetano
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Gaetano »

Firstly, I think someone would probably pay you more for your TB303, than these units are worth, so you would have some change. Secondly, although a lot of those new machines sound fantastic, they are not 'real' analog, and therefore since most of the processing is in the digital domain, they can be emulated with a computer with software and a decent sound card. Finally, the problem with a lot of these units (I'm speaking in general, I have not used one of these in particular), is that the internal processing and EFX are good, but you need to remove them for a mix, so you end up using them as a sample player, although live is another story. Just my opinion though, what do others think, is a TB303 worth more than an Elektron Machinedrum? Of course it also depends on the condition of the 303.

knarleybass
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by knarleybass »

I think you might be right, my 303 does sound good, but I have to say my x0xb0x sounds amazing!

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hamburgers
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by hamburgers »

Gaetano wrote:although a lot of those new machines sound fantastic, they are not 'real' analog, and therefore since most of the processing is in the digital domain, they can be emulated with a computer with software and a decent sound card. Finally, the problem with a lot of these units (I'm speaking in general, I have not used one of these in particular), is that the internal processing and EFX are good, but you need to remove them for a mix, so you end up using them as a sample player, although live is another story.
i disagree with just about all of this
Gaetano wrote: (I have not used one of these in particular)
yeah

i would take a UW mk2 over a 303 any day of the week

Gaetano
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Gaetano »

I wouldn't bother with an actual 303 if you have a x0xb0x, I would rather the xoxbox, as it sounds the same as far as 'I am' concerned, and it's tougher, and easier to mod than a 303. I am however interested in why some think that it's still a bit different, and I would like to know why (but that's another topic). And I would probably want a machinedrum (if mome rath has one then he obviously knows better than me what they're like) and a x0xb0x, instead of a x0xb0x and a 303. But you should probably sell the 303, then buy a machinedrum 'and' some other gear with what a collector would give you for it?

As far as the non-analog stuff goes, I'm not putting these machines down, I just found that 'a lot' of hardware stuff reminded me of VST instruments, and even with the good ones there is also the consideration that a lot of these machines don't hold their value (like a 303), as just like computers, they can be upgraded to a point, but then one with better hardware, faster ADC/DAC's and more memory and processing power just jumps over them (I would probably go for a used one if it's like new as most of this stuff drops in value as soon as you have bought it, like a car). Having said that, there are usually very good examples of particular instruments, that just sound better, and I haven't use this one in particular like I stated.

Also not all analogue is of equal value either, I tried a Huge (old and very expensive) Analogue Modular years ago, and I was very suprised that the MiniMoog VCF was still better by miles, however all of this stuff is subjective anyway. I once read that a TR909 was a really crappy drum machine in comparison to a TR707, as the TR707 had more realistic sounds. But hey, I'm probably biased, so don't take my word for it, I don't take these things personally, although it's sometimes a laugh to pretend I do :)

So in conclusion, to sum up my reasons for... (just kidding).

What I was really talking about the dollar value, the rest was just an aside, (I should know better than try to carry on a conversation on a forum). I don't like to see people get too little for things, then someone else puts them on eBay for their real $$$ value. Just to be clear though am I mistaken, is a machinedrum of equal $$$ value to a TB303?

knarleybass
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by knarleybass »

I can understand where you are coming from, I have a decent pile of analog and modeling synths in addition to plugins, to me they all have a flavor and a place, and to be honest, I have made more money and gotten more projects done with my analog modeling synths. Mainly because they are so stable, they never go out of tune, sometimes I see it like cars, I have my classic muscle car in the garage that I love to work on and drive on the weekends, then I have my budget day to day car that I actual drive during the week to and from work and the store.

Fiercefish
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Fiercefish »

I wouldn't bother with an actual 303 if you have a x0xb0x, I would rather the xoxbox, as it sounds the same as far as 'I am' concerned, and it's tougher, and easier to mod than a 303
If you have never owned a 303 I can understand why you might think that, but side by side a 303 sounds way better than a stock x0xb0x even with all the high beta transistors. I am by no means dissing the x0xb0x, I have owned 2 x0x and lots of 303's and whilst it is true that there is some variation between 303's they all have the same fluidic organic character which the x0x is lacking. Currently I am on a mission to get my yet to be built x0x sounding more 303 like, and for exactly the reasons you state - tougher, easier to mod.

I am pretty convinced that the transistors and vca are not the crucial elements, and I am looking into capacitors and other seemingly trivial things. FWIW the other x0x I built way back in the first run, I used high beta trannies, did the PSU mod, and a few other things but it still needed that extra something. But it is a very real difference and not some nostalgia thing.

Back on topic, I would keep the 303, the MDUWmkII is a GREAT machine though. I am fortunate enough to have 3 303's and a MDUWmkII and I have to say they work very nicely together.

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phono
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by phono »

thats a very subjective post Fiercefish ;)

Fiercefish
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Fiercefish »

Heh, I guess so :) Of course these are just my opinions, but I would add that I am particularly fussy about such things. :wink:

Gaetano
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Gaetano »

Fiercefish wrote: If you have never owned a 303 I can understand why you might think that, but side by side a 303 sounds way better than a stock x0xb0x even with all the high beta transistors.
Sorry Fiercefish, but I had a 303 for years, and extensivly modded it, and just about any other analog you can think of, that sadly I no longer have like the 303, (I have the original 303 manual and transposition wheel though). But you're right I don't have a 303 to compare a x0xb0x to in real time (BTW Fiercefish = Fiercly defend my devilfish?), therefore like speakers, it's probably hard to tell then which is better, if you don't hear them one after the other, but just like when you test speakers, you still can tell good speakers from bad. If you have both 303 and x0x 'Fiercefish', I would encourage you to run them both simultaneously and look at both with an oscilloscope, to see after what component there is a change, if it is a cap/s then it should be obvious, this may save you some time. Some people still prefer the 303, but with those PCB's and the fact that there is no replacement for their CPU's if they fail (as it's factory written into a ROM), I would not want one anymore, when you can make a x0x. Try getting the parts for some of these old synths now.

The 303 vs x0xb0x sound is not the issue though, I was not telling knarleybass to swap the 303, I was encouraging him to sell the 303 'if he wanted to get rid of it' to a collector, a lot of analogue is good for collecting if you have the money, but not all of it is practical, I think from memory the original Moog Modulars did not even have backs, but you would never get someone who bought one of these to tell you that they were not perfect. No-one has answered the question though about which is worth more (in $$$ value NOT intrinsic musical value), which was what I was talking about I thought.

Funnily enough, I know from experience about swapping digital for analogue, except that it was in my favour. I once swapped a Roland D110 Module for an ARP2600, to a guy that new (sorry knew, 'Fraudian Slip') the 2600 was not working, so he gave me a quick demo and pushed me out of the door, thinking he got the better of the deal as it didn't work. I didn't notice as I was too busy looking at the thing (of course this was before they became so expensive), and I never saw a real 2600 before. When I discovered the VCF didn't work, I opened it up and realised why he tried to operate on the power plug from the outside, it was because he didn't know how to open the case!, it's not that obvious I guess. Luckily it wasn't one with the solid filled modules, and it cost me $2.80 to fix :lol:

Fiercefish
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by Fiercefish »

I think the 303 is worth slightly more, depending of course on condition.

Score on the 2600!

Fiercefish = Just a name I used to record under when I first joined this board, I don't own a devilfish, in fact I prefer a stock 303 to a devilfish!

I have an old junked JX3p mainboard somewhere that I plan on harvesting for parts for my x0xb0x, I'm hoping that it has the caps and transistors I need, I have not checked yet but I think it may, it has a BA662 though :) I really want the x0x to sound as close to a 303 as I can get it.

I do have a fair bit of experience in repairing and modding 303's etc also.

stevenclements
 
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Re: Trading my Original TB-303 for an Elektron machinedrum

Post by stevenclements »

deal... I'll do it

:D

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