Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

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dingebre
 
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Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

First, Gaetano is the best source for a kit of all the rare parts for the x0xb0x. I purchased two kits from him and they were perfect and exactly as he advertised. He even pre-selected high gain 733AP's for Q8, 9, and 10.

But, if you want to buy a couple of spare 2SC1583's...

www.BANNED.net is a good source for most of the rare parts for good prices. I have dealt with them in the past for several hard to find IC's and they went the "extra mile" to make good on their product.

For example, BANNED quoted me $3.00 ea. for single quantity 2SC1583's, and $3.00 ea for 2SC2291's. Anyway, they are worth checking out if you need a couple of random spares. I am going to order a few spares "just in case" as soon as I get their quote back for the BA6110's. (Unfortunately, they couldn't find any BA662's)

IN SUMMARY:
For full kits, Gaetano is the best way to go.
For some spares, I would recommend looking at BANNED.

As always, be very careful of counterfeits. BANNED will almost always have a photo of the parts they are shipping so you can at least make sure it looks right before you order, and they are extremely prompt with quotes and replies to emails. They stand behind what they sell even if it is their supplier's fault.

Check this site for info on detecting counterfeits visually

http://www.aeri.com/counterfeits.html

Happy b0x'ing

David

David Ingebretsen
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
http://www.CFandE.com

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hamburgers
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by hamburgers »

thanks for the heads up

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dingebre
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

Happy to help out.

For what it's worth, I just placed an order for:

3 ea LA4140 $3.00 ea
3 ea 2SC2291 $3.00 ea
3 ea BA6110 $5.00 ea
6 ea 2SC1583 $3.00 ea

Pretty good pricing, I think. Unfortunately, UTS could not get supply on BA662's. Oh well...

David

David Ingebretsen
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
http://www.CFandE.com

Gaetano
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by Gaetano »

Firstly, I should mention thanks for the positive feedback dingebre :)

I also would be very interested in whether or not you got good parts from them, as the 2SC1583 in the picture is the infamous date code '52G', which looks exactly like the fakes I once bought, see here:

http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=11586

UTSource 2SC1583 - 52G.jpg
UTSource 2SC1583 - 52G.jpg (100.18 KiB) Viewed 5445 times
Also look at the energy wasted shipping these around the world more than a few times already. I have already seen them in Australia (sent to me by an Australian seller who got them from Singapore they said), then on eBay in the US, then they were reported at Dalbani in the UK, and now BANNED, which means that they are probably located in Singapore / China Mainland again :!:

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dingebre
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

Hi Gaetano,

You're welcome for the feedback. Your kits are the best (let me know if you get the TB-9090 rare parts kit together... )

I haven't tested the parts and only ordered a few "spares" since I thought you only sold kits.

My specific experience with BANNED has been excellent. Yes, they are a bit pricey on shipping, but on some parts, they are the only game in town.

Regarding the wasted energy, at least you can truly say your parts are sourced from around the world :) Besides, the planes were going there anyway, right :)

A quick good/bad example. I needed some MN3005 BBD delay chips and SmallBear's supply dried up (his last batch all came in DOA and he isn't sure if he can source others). BANNED had some. I ordered a handful and they tested fine. I ordered some more (as did some others) and they were counterfeit. BANNED immediately stopped shipping from their current source and found another supply and replaced all my counterfeit chips for free. I ordered an additional 5 chips and they all tested good. While it always requires caution when ordering vintage parts, I found BANNED to stand behind every part they sell. The unfortunate part is they are truly a middle man and have no way to test the parts before shipping. The great part is they are responsive, usually competitive, and in my dealings, very honest. Another good thing is the photos they post are usually of the part they have in stock, not some generic photo and Davis always answers email quickly.

I don't have a good way to test my spares. Is there an easy way to tell if they are good? I'll take a look at the date code when I get home. I've got a meter which will test transistors, but I'm not sure it will tell me specifically if these parts meet all the specs, mostly just if they are dead or working.

David

Gaetano
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by Gaetano »

Hi David,

I do only really sell kits, but if someone orders a kit and they need some other specific part as well, they can always ask, as I have tons of other components that I have accumulated over the years. If I have the part, I can always put it in with the kit to send it, as the postage is covered already. The TR9090 'Rare' Parts kit is coming soon, I still need to test a lot of parts.
As for not having a
dingebre wrote:good way to test ...[your] spares. Is there an easy way to tell if they are good?
The short answer is no, if you don't have a working project already. There is no easy way to test most of the components. You can make a test circuit for evaluation, but this is complicated. It is easier to actually make up the project, for example a x0xb0x and test them in the actual device. This will be a problem however, if the parts have not been tested first, and the project will not work when it is initially constructed. You need to then find out if the problem was with the construction (e.g., an IC or transistor in the wrong place / wrong way around), with the handling (not using basic handling precautions, when handling CMOS IC's), or faulty / fake parts. Faulty or fake parts are the worst if you are not very experienced in construction, as you will probably be looking for other reasons why your project is not working. So I would advise anyone who is constructing a project like the x0xb0x, in general, to at least handle delicate or static-sensitive components properly (get an anti-static mat and wrist strap, as these are cheap), and use IC sockets, these are also cheap, and a bad IC is easily replaced. Then if the project works well, you can at least test your other IC's easily if you have sockets :)

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dingebre
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

Thanks Gaetano.

As for experience, I started helping my dad as soon as I could hold the solder for him while he built HeathKits. I can't tell you how many resistors I sorted :). 45 years or so with an iron in my hand, graduate degree in physics with course work in electrical engineering. While I don't do analogue design, I can understand the general flow...

Fortunately, I do have a working x0xb0x in part thanks to your rare parts kit.

Re: 1583 photo, I don't have that particular date code on any of the 1583's Davis sent. A good close look at the parts I got pass the visual test on the aeri site. The IC's have the right look, dimples look good. The transistor lettering is a little off, but not really different than the photo on the parts list or the parts I got from you. I guess I could put them in my transistor tester and see if they are alive at least, maybe check the gain.

I bought them for spares as I am just a bit paranoid. Hopefully I'll never know if they are real or not :) Now that the thing works, I might swap in the 6110's, 4140's, and 6562's, but I soldered the 2291's and 1583's and am disinclined to go to the trouble.

Curiosity, were the counterfeit ones you bought simply DOA, or were they really a transistor pair, but a different part number? How did you figure out they were not the real thing?

Gaetano
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by Gaetano »

The fake 1583's I got were the wrong type of dual transistor, probably 2SA798 Dual PNP, judging by the pinout and Hfe (there are some very dodgy looking ones of these around as well). As for AERI do a search for 'BA662A' , still '1160 AVAILABLE' :lol:
I wrote:There is no easy way to test most of the components. You can make a test circuit for evaluation, but this is complicated. It is easier to actually make up the project, for example a x0xb0x and test them in the actual device. This will be a problem however, if the parts have not been tested first, and the project will not work when it is initially constructed. You need to then find out if the problem was with the construction (e.g., an IC or transistor in the wrong place / wrong way around), with the handling (not using basic handling precautions, when handling CMOS IC's), or faulty / fake parts. Faulty or fake parts are the worst if you are not very experienced in construction, as you will probably be looking for other reasons why your project is not working. So I would advise anyone who is constructing a project like the x0xb0x, in general, to at least handle delicate or static-sensitive components properly (get an anti-static mat and wrist strap, as these are cheap), and use IC sockets, these are also cheap, and a bad IC is easily replaced. Then if the project works well, you can at least test your other IC's easily if you have sockets :)
{These were just general comments to anyone reading this with little or no experience, the fact that your x0xb0x works David is testimony to you having enough experience and not needing any of this advice}. I probably just ran on a bit with the thought, thinking that I was was writing an essay, and not just answering a question, I am inclined to do this sometimes :roll:

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dingebre
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

Absolutely no offence inferred or taken, I just took the opprotunity to brag.

Yes, Aeri has everything on their web site :)

I'm grateful for those like you who do all the leg work, invest the time and money, so guys like me can build a cool kit.

Now, I'm intrigued. I think I will throw the transistors into my tester or the x0xb0x one of thee days. I'd like to know.

Anyway, thanks again Gaetano.

I'll be watching for the TB-9090 kits. I bought a few 2SC878's from Dalbani at Nikko to start. But this kit is way down the road.

Good luck everyone building and sourcing parts. Be careful.

David

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dingebre
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by dingebre »

For curiosity.

I tested one from the second rare parts kit I bought from you, Gaetano. I got 416 for the Hfe.

The tester I have is a RadioShack multimeter, and the instruction book says it tests the Hfe of bipolar transistors with no reference to PNP or NPN.

So, I tested the 5 I got from BANNED. Two tested over 500, one about 440, two upper 300's, one about 196. Checking with an Ohm meter, they test out as NPN pairs. From your other thread, it seems that all but the last one is in the right range (400 to 800), so one more check in the probably good column except for the low Hfe one, right?

David

Gaetano
 
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Re: Possible inexpensive source for some rare parts

Post by Gaetano »

Yes Hfe = 196 seems very low, but they can be from ~250-800.

'F' type, Hfe = 250-500
'G' type, Hfe = 400-800


Most I've tested are around 400<Hfe<800.

You will find though that most of the Hfe testers are accurate (enough for us), so I would not expect a 1583 to be that low (and out of range). I have tried both the 'F' and 'G' types and found no difference (either is okay), but I think as with most matched pairs of transistors, if they are in the (expected) Hfe range, then the value of the Hfe is less important than both being (relatively) closely matched.

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