Xbee Module, help please

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mjw
 
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Xbee Module, help please

Post by mjw »

Hi,

Last week (2/18) purchased two xbees and two xbee adapter kits. After putting them together, I tried to program them using CoolTerm (Mac OS X and connected to usb with FTDI Friend). One of them responded fine (green light blinked, the terminal responded OK) but the other module's green light blinked at a much higher rate and gave no "OK" at the terminal.

I know it is the adapter, and not the xbee because switching them gives the same behavior for the adapters but opposite for the xbees. It is very likely that I messed something up while soldering the kit. Any ideas what part of the circuit is causing this? Any other advice where to look with a multimeter and/or logic probe?

Thank you very much,
Mike

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

If you post photos of the front and back of the problem adapter we'll take a look for any signs of an assembly problem.

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

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xbee with adapter
xbee with adapter
xbee.JPG (196.5 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
xbee adapter (front)
xbee adapter (front)
xbee_adapter_1.JPG (126.22 KiB) Viewed 1465 times
xbee adapter (back)
xbee adapter (back)
xbee_adapter_2.JPG (193.1 KiB) Viewed 1465 times

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

It appears that everything is placed properly. But with the glare in the photo, it is hard to judge the quality of the solder joints. It looks like there might be a few cold-joints there. This guide has some tips on identifying and repairing these: http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-guid ... n-problems

One of the best ways to photograph circuit boards is near a window during the day. You get plenty of light, but it is soft and indirect so you don't get so much glare.

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by mjw »

Thank you for your help. Please find new photos posted below:
XBee adapter (front)
XBee adapter (front)
xbee_adapter_front.jpg (92.75 KiB) Viewed 1444 times
XBee adapter (back)
XBee adapter (back)
xbee_adapter_back.jpg (112.61 KiB) Viewed 1444 times

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

I don't see any problems with the assembly there. Which model of the XBee modules are you using?

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by mjw »

adafruit_support_bill wrote:I don't see any problems with the assembly there. Which model of the XBee modules are you using?
Do you now not think there are any cold joints or is this still on the table as a possibility?
Could you suggest looking at outputs at any specific pins?
The XBee modules are both Series 1.

Thank you,
Mike

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Do you now not think there are any cold joints or is this still on the table as a possibility?
From what I can see here, most of the joints look pretty good. The only slightly somewhat ones are on the resistors. From the schematics, R3 is related to the reset circuit and could be an issue. But it can be difficult to see some problems in a photo. I'd suggest looking through this guide and touching up anything that looks rough or 'frosted' to you. http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-guid ... n-problems

Looking at the Digi manual, the flash rate on the ASC pin (connected to the green LED) is related to the association state of the module. When you say one is blinking faster, how fast is it? 1/sec? 2/sec? 5/sec?
http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/Xbee ... 1%20DS.pdf

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

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From what I can see here, most of the joints look pretty good. The only slightly somewhat ones are on the resistors. From the schematics, R3 is related to the reset circuit and could be an issue. But it can be difficult to see some problems in a photo. I'd suggest looking through this guide and touching up anything that looks rough or 'frosted' to you. http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-guid ... n-problems
Yes, When I first tried to program the module, and was not able, I thought the resistors were not quite soldered as well as they could have been and added (more than) a bit of solder from the top. I think I'll try to clean off the solder, remove the resistors, and solder them in again. I'll also look around for other suspects among the soldering joints.
Looking at the Digi manual, the flash rate on the ASC pin (connected to the green LED) is related to the association state of the module. When you say one is blinking faster, how fast is it? 1/sec? 2/sec? 5/sec?
http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/Xbee ... 1%20DS.pdf
Not really sure, but thought is was much more than 5 Hz, maybe 20 or 30 Hz. Will have another look at it tonight.

Thank you very much for the help and for directing me to the links to the soldering guide and the datasheet. I'll continue to read them, try again to solder everything correctly, and will let you know how it goes.

Best,
Mike

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by mjw »

XBee adapter with resistors removed (front)
XBee adapter with resistors removed (front)
front.jpg (110.75 KiB) Viewed 1404 times
XBee adapter with resistors removed (back)
XBee adapter with resistors removed (back)
back.jpg (53.01 KiB) Viewed 1404 times
As you can see from the pictures, removed the resistors from the XBee adapter. Tried to get the soldering iron tip to poke through the holes, but not yet having much luck. Each of the holes where the resistor was mounted has a bit of solder still stuck in it. I've been using a conical tip, but even though the cone gets hot, the actual tip is black and does not heat up. I've tried cleaning it with the Hakko "steel wool" cleaner and then tinning the cone, but the tip will not hold any solder.

Also, when the resistors were still on, found that the green light would blink at the lower rates (2 Hz or 5 Hz) but most would blink at around 30 Hz.

May have another try at cleaning the holes for the resistors when I have some time ...

Thank you again for all the helpful advice.
Mike

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Each of the holes where the resistor was mounted has a bit of solder still stuck in it.
The best way to clear holes that I have found is to use a solder-sucker. Hold the sucker on the back of the board while heating from the front. When the solder is melted, lift th tip and fire the solder-sucker at the same time. Some people prefer solder-wick: http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... der+sucker
the actual tip is black and does not heat up. I've tried cleaning it with the Hakko "steel wool" cleaner and then tinning the cone, but the tip will not hold any solder.
Sounds like it might be time for a new tip.
Also, when the resistors were still on, found that the green light would blink at the lower rates (2 Hz or 5 Hz) but most would blink at around 30 Hz.
Are you sure of that? 30 Hz is up around the "flicker fusion rate" for human vision. Man multiplexed displays operate at even lower frequencies. At 30Hz it would appear to be pretty much steady-on.

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

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Each of the holes where the resistor was mounted has a bit of solder still stuck in it.
The best way to clear holes that I have found is to use a solder-sucker. Hold the sucker on the back of the board while heating from the front. When the solder is melted, lift th tip and fire the solder-sucker at the same time. Some people prefer solder-wick: http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... der+sucker
Have been using wick & just need to get the front hotter. I may also try the other tool. Sounds like it would come off cleaner and more quickly.
the actual tip is black and does not heat up. I've tried cleaning it with the Hakko "steel wool" cleaner and then tinning the cone, but the tip will not hold any solder.
Sounds like it might be time for a new tip.
Yes, could be, but this board is only the fourth for this tip! Maybe am running the iron at too high of a temperature? (750 F, lead free solder)
Also, when the resistors were still on, found that the green light would blink at the lower rates (2 Hz or 5 Hz) but mostly would blink at around 30 Hz.
Are you sure of that? 30 Hz is up around the "flicker fusion rate" for human vision. Man multiplexed displays operate at even lower frequencies. At 30Hz it would appear to be pretty much steady-on.
I've done some tests and I have been able to see 30 Hz. At around 50 Hz am not able to see LEDs blinking. I believe this green LED is blinking somewhere near 30 Hz because I can just barely perceive that it is flickering.

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

this board is only the fourth for this tip! Maybe am running the iron at too high of a temperature? (750 F, lead free solder)
I don't do a lot of lead-free work, but I've done a lot more than 4 boards worth at 750F. You might try one of the tip-tinner/cleaner pastes to see if that gets it back in shape: http://www.newark.com/plato/tt-95/lead- ... P=KNC-GPLA
I believe this green LED is blinking somewhere near 30 Hz because I can just barely perceive that it is flickering.
And you don't see a similar flicker on the other XBee? The documentation only mentions 4 states: solid on, 1Hz blink, 2Hz blink and 5Hz blink. You might ask over at the Digi forums. They are more familiar with the inner workings of these modules than we are: http://www.digi.com/support/forum/

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

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this board is only the fourth for this tip! Maybe am running the iron at too high of a temperature? (750 F, lead free solder)
I don't do a lot of lead-free work, but I've done a lot more than 4 boards worth at 750F. You might try one of the tip-tinner/cleaner pastes to see if that gets it back in shape: http://www.newark.com/plato/tt-95/lead- ... P=KNC-GPLA
Thank you, purchased a tinner/cleaner today.
I believe this green LED is blinking somewhere near 30 Hz because I can just barely perceive that it is flickering.
And you don't see a similar flicker on the other XBee? The documentation only mentions 4 states: solid on, 1Hz blink, 2Hz blink and 5Hz blink. You might ask over at the Digi forums. They are more familiar with the inner workings of these modules than we are: http://www.digi.com/support/forum/
Thank you for the link. May write to them some time but for now, I think the problem is with the adapter, especially now with a few resistors missing! Eventually, will clean the board up and replace the resistors and then see where we are at. Probably will buy another adapter meanwhile to get going on the intended project!

Thank you again for all of the help! Have learned quite a bit already from this exchange (pun was not intended!)

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Re: Xbee Module, help please

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

I think the problem is with the adapter as well. But the Digi engineers might be able to point us at what on the adapter might cause a ~30Hz flicker.

One possibility might be that a problem with the reset circuit (of which R3 is a part) might be putting it into an infinite reset loop.

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