Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

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srdevil
 
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Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

I've been reading on this forum for a few days while I'm planning on buying a Ice Tube Clock. I think I do understand most things, but I'm not really an software/electrical geek.

When I buy the clock and get it working I would like to add the "Dimmer mod" shown here: http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/programmers.html
Especially the part from Len17 abouth "The display brightness varies continuously based on the ambient light" sounds cool, but is this trick also avaidable in a firmware that has the trick for making the tube inconsequent brightness better (especially last digit).

When I read this thread it seems like I need firmware from DigiSage. I will not use GPS than because drift correction is avaidable. (Or is there a firmware avaidable with also GPS?)

For flashing the firmware into the clock it seems like I need this USBtinyISP: http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/programmers.html
But not to be rude, does it also work with one of those 2 below:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/USBASP-USBISP-AV ... 484cc123d1
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/USBasp-USBISP-3- ... 1e7cc0aebb

They have normal USB connection and 10 pins, I don't see the reason why I would not work on the clock (will only be used for this project)

Sorry for all the questions, I would like to buy the whole bunch at once because the shippingcosts to the Netherlands. :D

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

You can buy all the parts at once, but we recommend that you do the project one-step at a time. It is best to make sure that each part works before adding another feature.

Start by assembling the basic kit with the standard firmware. We will provide full support to assure that your clock is working as designed.

There are may user-supplied extensions and it sounds like you want to combine several of them. Many of the authors of these extensions are very active in the forums and are very helpful. We can offer some advice, but we did not write the software for these extensions, so we can't provide full support for it.

Regarding the ISP programmer: Our open-source design is very popular and there are many derivative products. We can only suggest that you look for a vendor that is willing to provide technical support for their products.

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jarchie
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by jarchie »

When I read this thread it seems like I need firmware from DigiSage.
For your first foray into alternative firmware, I would suggest trying my xmas-icetube firmware. It compiles cleanly and has decent installation instructions. Due to the many features, the configuration menus are complicated and can be confusing, but they are documented.

Many alternative firmware projects support automatic dimming. Check out this somewhat dated firmware comparison. Unfortunately, the more recent projects, my xmas-icetube and William's firmware, are not compared, but both projects support all features compared. The CREDITS file in my distribution contains links to various alternative projects and advice on installing them.

Alternatively, I would be willing to mail you a preprogramed xmas-icetube chip if you reimburse expenses; international first class to the Netherlands should be less than 20 USD.

But not to be rude, does it also work with one of those 2 below
They probably would work, but those programmers seem to have a 10-pin JTAG cable for ISP, but the Ice Tube Clock has a 6-pin ISP header. The protocol is identical, but you'd need to make or buy some sort of cable adapter. Also, I only see one microchip on those boards, which means they probably do not buffer communication between the programmer and the device to be programmed. They probably work just fine most of the time, but would be more prone to damage if exposed to excessive current or voltage. A lack of buffered I/O might also make them more prone to strange behavior / tantrums.

Also, Adafruit does not guarantee the clock can be programmed in-system, so you might need to program the chip in an AVR development board, like an Arduino. But chances are programming the chip in-system will work just fine.

Good luck and happy hacking!

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

Thanks for the swift response, I'm gonna place my coins on that in circuit programming is going to work, I'm not planning to buy a Arduino kit for doing this. With the electrical stuff I'm not really handy but I'm not afraid of flashing a few chips. I've been doing telephones and nexus 10 before with a good manual. I guess this should not be a lot different.

I don't mind buying a USBTiny from adafruit, but the point is if it isn't not working it could be soldered wrong, or I just dont get it. And I can buy a preassembled one for half the price which should work.
Example:
Image
for 10bucks (no protectioncase! like adafruit!)

If the in circuit programming is not working (and tube brightness is not equal) I'll definitely come back to u.
EDIT: Didnt like this part
This firmware requires the ATMEGA328P: not the ATMEGA168V included
with the Ice Tube Clock kit. Due to the many features, this firmware
currently requires ~25 kb of flash, but the ATMEGA168V only has 16 kb.
Also, if your ATMEGA328P has an Arduino bootloader installed, it will
not work without reconfiguration.


I did also read your "Ice Tube Clock Programming Tricks" topic and I had already been thinking of removing the tube before like this. I've seen some people talking abouth removing the tube is hard, but I didnt really see the problem because its just a connector..

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jarchie
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by jarchie »

Your plan sounds like it will work. Good luck!
EDIT: Didnt like this part: [The xmas-icetube firmware] requires the ATMEGA328P
I believe William's firmware also requires a 328P, but I think all the other projects fit on the 168V. Please note that the other projects may not compile on recent versions of avr-gcc, so you may need to update the source code yourself.

To be honest, I was disappointed when my firmware would no longer fit on the ATMEGA168V. My code was already fairly efficient, so there wasn't much I could do to reduce size without eliminating features. In fact, when my code had equivalent features to the original Adafruit code, the my compiled version was about 20% smaller.

After discussion with other clock hackers, I discovered that most people, including myself, would prefer to buy a $3 (US) chip if they could have the additional features I eventually implemented. The 328P is widely available, so most people can find a source within their country. And the chip is essentially identical to the 168V, except that the 328P has twice the memory, additional power-saving features, and slightly different fuse bits. But the chips have an identical form-factor, so users can simply pull the existing 168V out of the socket and insert the 328P--no soldering required.

That being written, I totally understand how the requirement of a 328P is a deal-breaker for some. I must caution that William and I are probably the developers most active on this forum, and you are less likely to receive good community support for other firmwares.

[The content of this post has been edited by the author.]

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

jarchie wrote:Your plan sounds like it will work. Good luck!
Please note that the other projects may not compile on recent versions of avr-gcc, so you may need to update the source code yourself.

That being written, I totally understand how the requirement of a 328P is a deal-breaker for some. I must caution that William and I are probably the developers most active on this forum, and you are less likely to receive good community support for other firmwares.
Because I'm not into software myself this is a little difficult. If i understand it good I should (probably) need to modify others sourch code to get it compiled for my 'old' chip. If i get a ATMEGA328P-PU this should not be a problem (no sourchcode editing part for me).

With a quick look on the internet I found a ATMEGA328P-PU without bootloaded preloaded (this is needed for not using arduino).
The ATmega328 is a 32k variant of the mega168. The ATmega48, ATmega88 and ATmega168 differ only in memory sizes, boot loader support, and interrupt vector sizes. In the ATmega88 ,ATmega168 and ATmega328, the Boot Loader Support provides a real Read-While- Write Self-Programming mechanism. NB! The PDIP-28 version has only 6 ADC channels, while the other packages have 8 channels.

Other points of note regarding this MCU is that it is "full" Automotive grade, essentially meaning that it can run at its full speed over nominal voltage. This gives the benefits of a low power MCU and those of a high performance model, in one package.

For the Arduino, this MCU comes straight from the factory and has no preloaded bootloader.
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Atmel-ATmega-328 ... 4ac6b49d45

Please correct me if u think I'm wrong.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

Total
1 ea. Ice tube clock replacement tube $10.00
1 ea. Photo cell (CdS photoresistor) $0.95
1 ea. Flush diagonal cutters $7.25
1 ea. Ice Tube Clock kit $85.00
1 ea. Ice Tube replacement side-PCB and male header $7.50
1 ea. Hakko Precision Flat Pliers $9.95
1 ea. USBtinyISP AVR Programmer Kit (USB SpokePOV Dongle) $22.00
Bought my stuff a few minutes ago. Also the USBtinyISP to avoid problems later. Spare PCB + Tube included if my clock dies after 10years of burning :P Now lets pray customs don't pick my package, but hey when they don't pick me its cheaper to order in America than ordering from a EU store.

Ordered a blank ATMEGA328P-PU somewhere else for $3,- included shipping.

At least hope my adafruit packages will arrive before 9 august when I'm back from holliday :D

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jarchie
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by jarchie »

I apologize for my delayed response. I haven't been online for the past few days.
Because I'm not into software myself this is a little difficult. If i understand it good I should (probably) need to modify others sourch code to get it compiled for my 'old' chip. If i get a ATMEGA328P-PU this should not be a problem (no sourchcode editing part for me).
You understand correctly.

With a quick look on the internet I found a ATMEGA328P-PU without bootloaded preloaded (this is needed for not using arduino).
That is the correct chip.

Bought my stuff a few minutes ago.
Looks great! I don't think you'll regret ordering the USBtinyISP from Adafruit. If you encounter difficulty, they have terrific technical support via these forums.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

Received my package on 31 july (ordered on 26 july). In my opinion this is extremely fast because its shipped to the Netherlands from adafruit. The customs didn't pick the package so that was good also. The noted package value was around $42. Thought it was not allowed in the USA to put lower values on the package and this was a economical crime, but hey, I didn't pay extra :D

Came back from vacation yesterday so I started soldering today, both USBtinyISP and Ice Tube Clock are done and both are working fine I guess. Only I noticed one strange thing.

When the clock is disconnected from the power and reconnected, the time is the same one as when I disconnected it (not counting any further on battery power). This is not the way it's ment to be I think? Also when replugging the power, the clock keeps blinking the time so I need to go "Menu, Set Time, 3x OK" and blinking stops. Any help on this?


The only thing I can think abouth atm is that the battery isn't loaded with power enought yet to keep both working (has been on electricity for only 10minutes yet).

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

When the clock is disconnected from the power and reconnected, the time is the same one as when I disconnected it
Make sure you are getting a good 3v from the backup battery. If you post photos of the front & back of the board we can check your assembly.
Also when replugging the power, the clock keeps blinking the time
This is normal with the standard software.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

Here are the pictures from all sides. As I do not have a multimeter (yet) its not possible to measure anything. The Multimeter I ordered somewhere isn't arrived yet and I couldn't leave the Ice Tube Clock waiting in the box :oops: :P

It can take probably two weeks more before it arrives.

EDIT: This is one of my first solder 'projects' (small NES controller to NES USB + USB Stick has been done before). I was screwing with the new solder tip first (0.5mm tip and using 0.5mm wire), but it seems like the tip didnt get enough heat transfered so I switched back to my 1.5mm tip.
Attachments
Top view board
Top view board
frontboard.jpg (559.86 KiB) Viewed 1583 times
The tube board
The tube board
tubeboard.jpg (466.45 KiB) Viewed 1583 times
back side and angled board view
back side and angled board view
backboard.jpg (956.51 KiB) Viewed 1583 times

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The soldering looks pretty good overall. There are a few joints though that look a bit solder-starved. For a reliable joint, you should have a good fillet as in the diagram below:

Image

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

I've touched up all solder joints and added extra solder. But the problem that the battery doesn't keep time is still there. It 'remembers' the time it went off, but it doesn't count any further.

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Hmmmm. You could try jarchie's firmware. He has made some enhancements in the power-fail detect logic, and that has worked for others with this problem in the past.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice tube clock - Getting started with the parts

Post by srdevil »

I've got my Multimeter that arrived today. I've been measuring a few things and when I measure the 3V battery, I do only get 1.48-1.5V. Maybe this is the reason that it's not working correctly.

I'm not handy with all this stuff but when measuring normal battery's (AA) I'm getting around 1.2-1.3V, what is meeting the specs.


I'm wanting to get jarchies firmware running on my clock but I'm still a littlebit stuck with compiling the stuff but I'll contact him soon probably for a littlebit help if he wants.

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