Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

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phild13
 
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Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by phild13 »

First I want to say that I am extremely happy with my clock kit, and would recommend it to others as a fun kit to build and modify later if so desired. The following are some observations, and findings from reading and comparing information from a number of sources. I have also included a few tips that may make a first time clock kit builders experience better. Hopefully the information helps others have a happy experience building their kit.

After assembly of the kit according to the instructions, this is what I have found. The clock passed all tests during construction with good readings, and appeared to work well with nice evenly lit digits and everything (day date etc.) programmed properly. When I unplugged the clock to move it from my garage workbench to my desk it did not keep time and I had to reset it.

This seems to be an issue and there is discussion in various threads here in the clock forum about the icetube clock not keeping time when unplugged. Since it happened to my clock as wel I thought I would try to find out why when the clock is unplugged to move it to another location or the power goes out the clock does not keep time while on battery backup.

The FET Q3 is designed into the clock as a high side switch to disconnect the voltage from the tube filament (bias) and the voltage (VCC) from the MAX6921 VFD drive chip in the event of a loss of normal input voltage. This leaves only the ATmega168V-10PU processor powered by the battery and a good battery can power the processor for at least a couple weeks.

The Q3 FET will still work if it is installed backwards, so the clock will still work and display time just fine. Due to how a FET is constructed, the FET will not fully turn off if it is reversed in the circuit and will still pass current.

So, if the clock does not keep time while only on battery power then the FET Q3 is probably installed backwards causing it to not turn off properly when power is removed.

I have found that the current ZVP3306A (from Diodes Inc.) p-channel enhancement mode FET supplied for Q3 has the correct orientation when installed with the rounded side with writing on it facing the rounded side of the silkscreen outline on the board as in the photo below. This orientation also matches the schematic for the clock.

This is contrary to the assembly instructions which state:
The transistor must be placed correctly if the MOSFET has the text on the flat side of the transistor make sure the rounded half of the transistor case matches the rounded silkscreen.

If the MOSFET has the text on the rounded side, flip it around so the text is facing away from the big capacitor and facing the 22 ohm resistor you just placed.
Do this to check to see if Q3 is backwards:

Caution! Up to 60 volts is present in parts of the clock while powered from the adapter. This test does not require the adapter to be plugged in.

1.) Unplug the clock from power and disassemble the case leaving the bottom plastic piece attached to the main board. Leave the tube installed in the female connector.
2.) Make sure the battery is fresh and not exhausted, or insert a new fresh battery into the battery holder.
3.) While the clock is unplugged and on battery only, check the voltage from ground (use the big tab of IC3 for ground) to Q3 FETs upper led that is located closest to the boards edge. See photo below for reference. This is the led that sends power to the VFD chip and the 22 ohm tube bias resistor R3. There should be zero volts on this led while on battery.
4.) If you get a voltage reading (I measured 2.1 volts, but this may vary some due to actual battery condition, part, and meter tolerances) then the Q3 FET is installed backwards or is damaged in some way.

To fix the issue:

1.) If the FET is installed backwards, remove the battery and then desolder Q3 and remove it from the board. Be careful not to overheat the FET when desoldering it or it will be damaged and no longer work. A good way to remove the FET is If there is enough led length left on Q3 (probably is), you can clip the leds flush with the top of the board and desolder the little pieces left from their holes using any desired method without worrying about damaging the FET.
2.) Turn Q3 around so the rounded side of the FET matches the silk screen as shown in the photo below and solder it back in.
3.) Insert the battery in its holder and measure the upper pin closest to the board edge to ground (big tab on IC3) again. There should now be zero volts on the led closest to the edge of the board.
4.) If you still get a voltage reading after turning the FET around, then the Q3 FET has likely been damaged by heat or static and needs to be replaced. Install the replacement FET in the new correct orientation of rounded side matching the printed silkscreens rounded side as the photo shows.
ZVP3306A  FET Q3 Correct orientation according to the ZVP3306A  FET data sheet and the schematic of the clock. The led closest to board edge is the FETs Drain and the pad it is soldered to supplies the load when the FET is on. The source is the pin farthest from the board edge and is that pad is connected to the VCC source. The Gate is the middle pin and is connected to the processor.
ZVP3306A FET Q3 Correct orientation according to the ZVP3306A FET data sheet and the schematic of the clock. The led closest to board edge is the FETs Drain and the pad it is soldered to supplies the load when the FET is on. The source is the pin farthest from the board edge and is that pad is connected to the VCC source. The Gate is the middle pin and is connected to the processor.
icetube_Q3_small.jpg (38.18 KiB) Viewed 2971 times
References:
ZVP3306A FET Part link: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... 25?cur=USD
Datasheet: http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZVP3306A.pdf
Eagle files, board, and schematic: https://github.com/adafruit/Ice-Tube-Clock
Board assembly: http://learn.adafruit.com/ice-tube-cloc ... d-assembly
Another builders FET installed correctly (scroll to last photo): http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.ph ... hm#p203372


And now......
Some helpful tips on clock assembly:

The Ice Cube Clock will blink the display after a power loss. This is normal and acts like most other commercial clocks to warn of a potential time loss due to a power loss. Toggle through the Menu options to stop the blinking.
- This how it's supposed to work anytime the clock senses a loss of power and is not an indication of the FET being installed backwards or some other problem.

The clock when first built and powered on has the brightness defaulted (is set) to the dimmest setting making it very hard to see
to set in normal room brightness.
The Brightness setting is the 4th menu in. Press the Menu button 4 times, then press the + button 2 or 3 times to set brightness higher
before trying to set other options. This makes it much easier to read the clock while initially setting and getting used to the menus and can be adjusted later as desired.

When installing the buttons on the board, make sure to get all of the buttons flat to the circuit board and keep them flat while soldering them in place. If the buttons are not flat to the circuit board, their black stems won't fit properly through the case holes and may stick in when pressed, so pay close attention to that detail. If they do get soldered in not quite flat then you may need to make the button holes in the case back slightly larger. Use care, the proper size drill bit (one size larger than the hole is good) in a battery drill, go slow and drill from both sides of the hole or the plastic may break.

Allow plenty of time to fit the tube to the circuit board it mounts on and be patient.
Tweezers and a small pair of needle nose pliers can help straighten any wires and assist in getting them through the holes.
Don't try to force any wires through their holes.
Inserting each wire a little ways into its corresponding hole, then bending the wires end over so it will stay in the hole
makes it easier to maneuver the tube and board while inserting wires.
Once all the wires are in their proper holes, begin moving the PC board up the wires toward the tube end. Use fingers, tweezers,
and needle nose pliers as necessary to assist in sliding the PC board into proper position.


And finally....
For those who wish to experiment with a FET:

For those who wish to experiment with a FET and the effects of installing it different ways, you can breadboard a quick demonstration. Insert a ZVP3306A (or a ZVP2120A) into a breadboard, connect the Source side led (see data sheet for pinout) of the FET to +5volts, connect the Drain side of the FET to the positive side of a LED, and then connect the negative (shorter led) side of the LED to a 560 ohm (or so) resistor, connect the other end of the resistor to ground. Now connect the Gate (middle led) on the FET to ground and the LED will light. Connect the Gate to +5v and the led will turn off. This is how a p-channel FET works. Now remove the FET from the breadboard, turn it around and place it back in the breadboard. This will reverse the Source and Drain connections with the drain now connected to +5volts and the source connected to the load (the LED). Now you will see that the LED lights up when the FET is inserted in the breadboard and is not quite as bright as before. This is because even though the FET is off the FET is still passing some current, though we did not tell it to do so. Now connect the Gate to ground and if you look closely when you do this you will see the LED get a bit brighter as the FET actually turns on. Connect the Gate to +5volts, the FET will turn off but the light will stay on, but get slightly dimmer as the FETs body diode is still conducting and the forward voltage drop makes the led slightly dimmer This can be used to an advantage in some circuits, but is not what we want for the clock.

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Thanks for the feedback - I'll look into the Q3 marking issue & see if there has been a recent change in packaging.

tankist02
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by tankist02 »

Excellent post! I can confirm that instructions on how to orient the Q3 based on text location are not correct. I did a simple switch on a breadboard and found that the silkscreen outline is the correct one. I used a couple of ZVP3306A to check - one from the kit and another ordered from an online store.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by srdevil »

Since I was one of the ones that had a problem I'll probably try this tomorrow if I can find the time. Ill hook it up on a wire than, so if it doesn't help I can put it easy back in again (like it was)!

However my replacement clock does keep the time and both have the writings on the same side and are mounted the same way.

srdevil
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by srdevil »

I've turned around the FET but the clock is not working anymore so didn't even test with the battery. When turned around the display is VERY dim (even in dark barly readable) and it shows something like 1888888. This trick did not solve the problem for my clock.

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phild13
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by phild13 »

That is weird as the FET should work both ways unless it is damaged. It just won't fully turn off if installed backwards because of the body diode that is internal to the FET. The battery then tries to supply power to the VFD chip and the tube in addition to supplying the processor. The battery can't do that and quickly becomes to low in voltage/exhausted. I think that is why some clocks don't keep time on battery.

You don't have to do this if you don't want to as I wouldn't want you to risk messing up the replacement clock, but can you take a voltage measurement as described (between the FETs upper led and the IC3 tab) while the clock is unplugged and on battery and report the findings?

My kit was unaltered when built but did not keep time on battery until I turned the FET Q3 around. Then it kept time while on battery just fine. I have since made some mods (328p, xmas software, 2110 fet, 10pF caps for crystal) but the kit still acts the same way with the zvp2110 fet in that it keeps time on battery if the fet matches the silk screen and won't keep time on battery if I turn the fet around as in the kit instructions.

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skibum-za
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by skibum-za »

I built my ice clock yesterday. To my surprise it worked first time. After playing for a while, I powered it off and noticed that when powered on time hadn't advanced. So, I then found this thread.

I followed the adafruit instructions that said to put Q3 in the 'wrong way round' due to where my text was.

So, I removed it, and as I bought 2 clocks, decided to use a new Q3 instead of the one I removed. So, installed the new one per this thread and the silk screen and now I've got problems.

While it does work, the 2nd digit starts flashing. Also when cycling through the menus, other digits seem missing/flashing as well.

The other thing I noticed was when I built it and did the voltage checks when told too, I measured 60v off the diode d3. Now I'm only getting 40v. Both voltages were with the display removed.

I also measured the voltage on Q3 on battery and on mains since I put the new one in.

Battery (furthest from edge to edge)
2.76v
2.66v
0v

Mains (furthest from edge to edge)
4.7v
0v
4.7v

From reading the post about flickering digits, it seems the problem is the Q3 and it needs reversing. So maybe I'll have to reverse it again and live with the problem if I lose power.

Any ideas?
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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Assembly looks fine. Not sure what is going on with the Q3 transistors. Can you post a close-up photo of the ones you have?

tankist02
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by tankist02 »

My problem with Q3 is that with if it installed in accordance to the silk screen digits do not light up. If I short D and S (by connecting them with wire) then all digits are bright and the clock seems to work. What voltages should be around Q3 when the clock is normally powered (not by battery)?

Related issue is that while trying to desolder the Q3 I managed to overheat the PCB and one trace got unglued. Any chance to repair it?

In general, how do people desolder components without ruining them and/or PCB? I tried both a wick and a pump to no avail. The first thing couldn't get all solder from the hole thus keeping component in place. The second didn't work because solder gets solid during the moment when I remove soldering iron and apply the pump. That's where I damaged the PCB while trying to heat connections more. I ended up cutting the component "legs", desoldering them one by one and then drilling holes through remaining solder. Crazy.

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Desoldering is one of my least favorite tasks. :(
Generally I prefer the solder-sucker, but others have better luck with the wick. In either case, it takes patience to get the parts out intact. If the part has more than 3 pins, I'll often resort to clipping the legs and sacrificing the part.

Once you get the pins out, the solder sucker works well to clear the holes. Place the tip of the cocked pump on the back of the board and heat from the front. Pull the iron away just as you fire the pump so it doesn't block the air flow.

Check here for some tips on lifted traces: http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-guid ... n-problems

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skibum-za
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by skibum-za »

Here's a picture of my Q3. The removed one is scratched rather badly, by my croc clip slipping sometimes. But has the same markings.

Oddly, I do have something else to report.

Today my 9v 1a psu arrived (I'm in the UK). I was using a 12v 1.5a psu. Now using the 9v, when its switched on, the only digit that flickers is the character of 'Set Brlt'. Although I left it on for 10 mins of so and then the only digits displayed where the 1st and last digit. Rather odd.

So I removed the display and tested the voltage at d3. Its only 30v with the 9v psu, but 40v with the 12v.

So I guess I'll try and desolder it again and turn it around. Personally I prefer not having the battery backup, than the display doing weird things.
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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The boot circuit works from the raw supply voltage, so a drop in boost voltage is expected. Not sure what is going on with the digits dropping out. Is the 5v regulated supply stable?

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skibum-za
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by skibum-za »

I'm getting a constant 4.98v off the regulator. So, seems stable to me. Just wondering if I messed something up, while desoldering Q3 the 1st time. Anything else I can check?

Seems I can just bypass Q3 if I don't care about the battery backup.

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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Bypassing Q3 should work if you don't care about battery backup. Not sure that a Q3 problem explains the dropping digits though.

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phild13
 
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Re: Ice Tube Clock Q3 FET install and some assembly Tips

Post by phild13 »

The Q3 is just a switch so removing it and the battery won't hurt anything other than there will be no time backup. You will have to jumper the 2 outside pins on Q3 if you do remove it. Leave the middle pin unconnected.

The fet is static sensitive and can be harmed by careless handling. Simply touching the leds while it is uninstalled with your finger can damage it. It is also sensitive to accidental over currents. Both types of damage could make it fail to fully turn on or fully turn off.

With the clock powered by 9 volts (not battery) you should have the VCC voltage (4.98v) on both of the outside pins of Q3.
With the clock on battery power only you should have voltage on the inside most pin of Q3 and no voltage on the pin closest to the board edge.

You don't have photos of the tube board but I would check to make sure the tube is soldered in properly and there are no shorts between connections on the board. I found it very easy to create a short on the tube board while soldering.

I would also verify all the pins on the max vfd chip, and the two connectors (male/female) for the tube are soldered well with no starved or shorted pads/pins.

Broken traces can be repaired by replacing the trace with a fine piece of wire.
Lifted traces could be glued down with fingernail polish after soldering.

I generally clip the leds as close to the board as possible on the component side and then use the solder sucker method like Bill described.

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