SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV
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SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Sun May 30, 2010 12:19 pm

I've been able to get the small discretes placing fine as well as larger QFPs (which surprisingly were the easiest thing to setup), but the SOT23 and related parts like SOT23-5 are all over the place. They seemed to just get dropped on the board and end up upside down, at 30°, etc.

I don't suppose someone here using the MDC machines could post some working part data for a SOT23 part (like a transistor) and SOT23-5 (like a small EEPROM, etc.)? I tried using TR for SOT23 with lv 1 or 26 but haven't found the magic formula to properly place these parts. The machine gently places things like QFP, but just seems to drop others from the air.
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by adafruit on Sun May 30, 2010 1:20 pm

what do you mean 'dropped' - like they are categorized as a mispick or they fall out randomly? i got SOT-23 MMBT transistors working if you want i can try to get a screenshot of the parts def
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Sun May 30, 2010 2:09 pm

A screenshot would be great if you've got a second! The SOT23 parts are the only thing left to work out for the boards. By drop,I mean it goes over the pad and stops the suction from a higher distance than it does with, say, a QFP, for which is first slowly descends a bit and gently places it on the pads. It would be nice it is spit the chip out a lot closer to the PCB but it's almost certainly a part defition problem. It's kind of cryptic at times understanding which part label to us (CHP, chp, TR, chi, TAN, QFP, etc.).
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by adafruit on Sun May 30, 2010 9:06 pm

tell you what, if i post the screenshot can you turn my ~5 parts into a wiki table so we can create a 'library' of custom parts on the wiki? :mrgreen:
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Mon May 31, 2010 1:53 am

I was actually thinking a wiki entry is ideal since I've created a bunch of QFP parts, etc., and am testing them. I'm crazy busy at the moment, but later in the week I'll try to add some content if you want to create the page.
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by adafruit on Mon May 31, 2010 9:28 am

ktownsend wrote:I was actually thinking a wiki entry is ideal since I've created a bunch of QFP parts, etc., and am testing them. I'm crazy busy at the moment, but later in the week I'll try to add some content if you want to create the page.


we're crazy busy too :)

that said - we don't mind dropping everything and helping you out, just promise us to put something up by end of week, does that seem fair?
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am

I managed to get the SOT parts working .. had to change a global setting (R5 #6 off the top of my head, setting it to 0 from the -150 it was set at), so don't worry about the screenshot. I'll be away Wednesday until Sunday for a seminar, but next Monday I'll add the page (if I have the rights?) and put in some of the part defitions I've been using like QFP48, etc., since it's useful. If you've got time later to add to it yourself I'm sure that would be useful to the handful of other MDC users here. No point reinventing the same stuff over and over, and the biggest point of failure seems to be poor part definitions.

I just put four 1343 boards together and i have everything working 95% (the crystal is sometimes at a small angle), though I'm manually placing the USB connector, DC barrel and buttons. I need to work on automating those and I can just fire them directly in the oven. The SW is definately quirky, though ... I never would have dug around in the global settings to fix the SOT (TR) placement.

There are some misses here since it was the first attempt, but you get the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owtDaY3vu7A

Kevin.
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by adafruit on Mon May 31, 2010 10:54 am

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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Mon May 31, 2010 12:00 pm

Limor:

Great. I only expected the blank page, but that's great. I'll add in some parts as I can test and confirm them.

Kevin.
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Mon May 31, 2010 12:14 pm

I added QFP48, 0805 LED (I had to use bottom vision due to clear top), 3216/A Tantalum (10uF, etc.), and SMA Diode. I'll add more parts next week, or change them as I improve the 'footprints'. Thanks again for taking the time to create the page.
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by adafruit on Mon May 31, 2010 12:47 pm

yay thanks!!! you made my day :mrgreen:

there is a way to make LEDs work, but I couldnt figure it out with 0805's :( (thus the "not working" note) maybe isozee or someone else here with a 7722FV can give us a hint :)
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by ktownsend on Mon May 31, 2010 1:36 pm

I saw a note in the manual that the clear LEDs don't work with the top vision ... the transparent part messes it up. I had to use bottom vision to get clear 0805's to place, but with the data I entered I haven't had any more misses. I'm using the following LEDs if that helps:

Red 20mA 0805 - Digikey 754-1128
Green 20mA 0805 - Digikey 754-1131

Note: I had to use nozzle one for those LEDs since the square part in the middle is quite small. Under 1mm, though I forget the exact dimensions. After spending a lot of time and effort making a decent footprint library I feel like I get to start all over again from scratch with the P&P now. :lol:
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Re: SOT23, SOT23-5, etc. with 7722FV

by vincentp on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:10 am

I realize it could be worthy to dig up that old post, with the updated manual. What a pain it must have been at the very beginning to get started with the machine, glad we now have a whole legion of members with machine AND some knowledge out it :-)

ktownsend wrote:I managed to get the SOT parts working .. had to change a global setting (R5 #6 off the top of my head, setting it to 0 from the -150 it was set at), so don't worry about the screenshot.


that's correct, this setting is a dedicated TR offset, separated from the part specfic offset (that are defined in the part definition itself). As a matter of fact, as explained in the alternative manual, the lack of vision depth of the side camera (flying vision) will induce an angle error with most parts bigger than a 1206 SMD. Plus the SOT have rounded edges and eventually the lead making hard to find the proper edge. Still, to avoid defining the part offset angle for ALL TR-like parts and ALL angles (0-90-180-270) in the part definition, there's a global setting to correct this, with system constant k6 #5. It's in motor steps = 1/100 deg.
Mine is currently -80 and works fine for both SOT23-3 and -5

More details in the calibration section of the manual from page 150. Remember that those offset should be trimmed / tune once the machine has been fully calibrated, otherwise it's a waste of time.

ktownsend wrote:I saw a note in the manual that the clear LEDs don't work with the top vision ... the transparent part messes it up. I had to use bottom vision to get clear 0805's to place, but with the data I entered I haven't had any more misses.


The led is an interesting example. Check page 45 of the manual, the led is used as an example of use of the W and Pt in the part definition. W is used there (with flying vision Lv=1) to offset the horizontal reference axis and align it with the opaque LED sole, this way the part can be checked !
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