best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Chat about pick and place machines, reflow ovens, assembly techniques and other SMT tips & trix

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esdk
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by esdk »

Hi,

If you are interested in the APS Gold NovaStar Pick and Place machine we have one for sale - a LE40 benchtop. Please check http://electronics-shop.dk/aps-le40

We have used it for 1½ year its a great little machine for batch production. We outgrew it and is now producing on 3 siemens siplace machines.

Comes complete with over 100 feeders and lots of options like glass scale encoders, dispenser, etc.

Best Regards

Søren
Electronics-shop.dk

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hans chr
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by hans chr »

Hi all,

I have purchased a pick and place machine, the M10V, from mechatronika.com.pl . It states 1200 to 1600 chips/hour. I am very satisfied with it. I also have their reflow oven, MR260. It would be nice to hear if anyone else have it, pherhaps we could share information.

blogger
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by blogger »

Cool, M10 can pickup parts from a random bin. That's exactly the kind of functionality that 7722FV has all the technical requirements for, but lacks in software department...

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ktownsend
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by ktownsend »

Hans Chr wrote:Hi all,

I have purchased a pick and place machine, the M10V, from mechatronika.com.pl . It states 1200 to 1600 chips/hour. I am very satisfied with it. I also have their reflow oven, MR260. It would be nice to hear if anyone else have it, pherhaps we could share information.
I'd be curious to hear what you paid for it (compared to my 7722FV), just for comparison sake. Any chance you'd mind posting a ballpark figure, or maybe PM me?

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vincentp
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by vincentp »

I apologize for necroposting, just willing to revive this topic despite it's mostly the manncorp machine that has been discussed here with reasons :wink:
My hobby business is expanding (a lot) and I'm looking for a PnP machine. My needs aren't big, I'm really after an entry range machine. Not just for the $$$ question but I've really well targeted my needs. I don't plan to propose any placement service as it's not my business purpose. I've been stenciling paste and assembling boards for 5 years now, I was only recently able to save some time with an access to a big machine but it's no longer possible.
Basically, if I need 1 week to make 100 boards, it's not a problem. The current production (manual) with all I have to do elsewhere (house, family, dayjob) is more like 100 boards per month.

I've been warned about the return on investment and "why would you need a machine", and I know that I'll damper the cost in a very reasonable time, as my activity is already established but :
- I don't have the budget for servicing a complex / powerful machine like a mydata
- I do have space in the basement but it's not unlimited.

my designs have 0603, a TQFP MCU, SOT 23 regulators, a couple of SSOP, this sort of things. I've been placing those by hand for quite a while now, and that 's the time I need to save. Setup time isn't a problem, I don't have a crazy production rate with dozen of designs per day. I've been trained a bit by my buddy (mydata operator). Basically, we did about 250 boards a day instead of 100 boards a month, if doing it only all the time by hand (which equals zero R&D time).

I've read good things about the APS LE40 then digging more people won't recommend it, cost, software. I'm sure no system is perfect but again, some point of view emerge with the use of a better / more professional machine that I can't afford right now and I'm not willing to have my batches done elsewhere because it's a nightmare where I am, and I believe in autonomy.

someone mentioned the M10V from mechatronika. I'd like to hear about usage and pricing. This and any pointers (in europe) for second hand equipment.

thanks for any help

scsi
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by scsi »

Have you looked at that Essemtec Pantera listed on eBay in Slovenia? I have no experience with it but the deal does not seem bad at all if you can check it out before buying.

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vincentp
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by vincentp »

hell, it's really a good deal :shock:
I'd need to go slovenia but that's not that far. I got to check on ebay more often, thank a lot for sharing.
that kind of second hand machine would fit both my needs and budget. I'm currently gathering the funds, so it's a no go for me now though but I'll keep looking !

any advice welcome !
thank you

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alphatronique
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by alphatronique »

delete by me
Last edited by alphatronique on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vincentp
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by vincentp »

thanks a lot marc

lol, I'll fancy another trip to canada, it's been a while, but I think they'll overcharge me a lot to bring this machine back :lol:

I believe I need top vision at least as I work on panels and from what I understand, it's important to have the fiducial recognized for each PCB to avoid deviation. Panels are about 29x15 cm.

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alphatronique
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by alphatronique »

delete by me
Last edited by alphatronique on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vincentp
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by vincentp »

thanks marc. I read my post again and I see I totally forgot to mention my actual location which is... France.
I know that import duty is very low in both the US and canada, unfortunately, anything coming from outside of the EU will be highly taxed for anything above $300 (ish). As they count the shipping cost in the total bill, an estimate of 25% import duty (> VAT) is what you have to pay. Stiff, isn't it ?

(but if you could fax me that machine, I'll take it for sure :lol: )

thanks again !

nobody with experience on the mechatronika 10V ?

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alphatronique
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by alphatronique »

outch

oui shiper une machine en france ses pas donner et pas rentable

as for mechatronika only problem i see as for every no Very common machine
was lack of used feeder on market so you need to got it from original dealer
and it more expensive .. as exemple a used GSM-1 8mm feeder cost 45$
since it have many on market ,but a APS gold feeder may cost > 400$

and remember that normally your bigger expense will feeder not the machine alone

so it may a good buy but only if it come already loaded whit feeder you need
30 x 8mm ,10 x 12mm feeder was near the minimum need

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ktownsend
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by ktownsend »

vincentp wrote:thanks marc. I read my post again and I see I totally forgot to mention my actual location which is... France.
I know that import duty is very low in both the US and canada, unfortunately, anything coming from outside of the EU will be highly taxed for anything above $300 (ish). As they count the shipping cost in the total bill, an estimate of 25% import duty (> VAT) is what you have to pay. Stiff, isn't it ?

(but if you could fax me that machine, I'll take it for sure :lol: )

thanks again !

nobody with experience on the mechatronika 10V ?
This might be more than you're looking for, but it's at least located in France :)

http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=28153

bmw330i
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by bmw330i »

Well, I wrote the guys that make the M10 and they said they could ship one around October due to their backlog. Seems they are very attractively priced.
I ended up getting an MDC 7712 (direct from MDC) for pretty much 1/2 the cost of buying from Manncorp. I must say going direct with MDC was unbelievably easy and friendly. If you have the money by all means Manncorp is there if you can afford it. They try and earn their markup for sure. I have nothing but nice things to say about them. Just my hands were tied. I can't afford the markup.
I'm posting this for others who just maybe like me can't afford the markup but need a new machine. I'm incredibly grateful MDC allows us to buy direct. You must accept that it's DIY on the install however which I did. I'm pretty confident the LadyYada Blog has what I need.
FWIW: 7712 is a 7722 where one side is cut tape feeders and the other reel feeder. So instead of 54 reel capacity it's 27 + the cut tapes on the other side. I'll post unboxing and setup photos.
-DC

heli_linus
 
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

Post by heli_linus »

Hi

Ißve had a chance to get hands-on the M10V. SPent half a day playing with it :) really enjoyed. Still, very new to P&P I canßt give a comparison or absolute value, but the software is quite intuitive to use. We skipped the standard parts and spent time on teaching in and placing
- 0402 and 0201 resistors and caps
- non standard parts like side mount tactile switches, mid mount USB ... reverse mount LEDs
- heavy, big parts like 90Amp Inductors (1.4x1.4cm, 8mm height), DC/DC modules and so on

finally, it handled all of this easily.

The part setup is very easy, 4 guided steps. The basic principle of the mashine is it has "on" working area. you place the board and all parts somewhere there. The automatic feeders reach just in this area and left and right side. i.e. Strip feeders are taught in by selecting first and last part and ammount in this row, done. All visual guided using camera. Bulk feeders are rectangular spaces where the parts can freely positioned within. After teaching the pattern, it will find it in this area. If the pattern allows for polarity mark to recognise, polarised parts can be used, too.

Of course, the automatic feeders are much more comfortable and quicker to set up, but, more expensive.

If I can allocate the funds, I will get one :)

Since I was so occupied using the mashine I had no time for pictures and videos, but, if you have specific questions, ask me - I asked a lot and got plenty of answers back ;)

Cheers
Linus

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