Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by ktownsend on Mon May 21, 2012 7:53 pm

vincentp wrote:thanks marc. I read my post again and I see I totally forgot to mention my actual location which is... France.
I know that import duty is very low in both the US and canada, unfortunately, anything coming from outside of the EU will be highly taxed for anything above $300 (ish). As they count the shipping cost in the total bill, an estimate of 25% import duty (> VAT) is what you have to pay. Stiff, isn't it ?

(but if you could fax me that machine, I'll take it for sure :lol: )

thanks again !

nobody with experience on the mechatronika 10V ?


This might be more than you're looking for, but it's at least located in France :)

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=28153
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by bmw330i on Tue May 29, 2012 11:09 pm

Well, I wrote the guys that make the M10 and they said they could ship one around October due to their backlog. Seems they are very attractively priced.
I ended up getting an MDC 7712 (direct from MDC) for pretty much 1/2 the cost of buying from Manncorp. I must say going direct with MDC was unbelievably easy and friendly. If you have the money by all means Manncorp is there if you can afford it. They try and earn their markup for sure. I have nothing but nice things to say about them. Just my hands were tied. I can't afford the markup.
I'm posting this for others who just maybe like me can't afford the markup but need a new machine. I'm incredibly grateful MDC allows us to buy direct. You must accept that it's DIY on the install however which I did. I'm pretty confident the LadyYada Blog has what I need.
FWIW: 7712 is a 7722 where one side is cut tape feeders and the other reel feeder. So instead of 54 reel capacity it's 27 + the cut tapes on the other side. I'll post unboxing and setup photos.
-DC
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by heli_linus on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:53 pm

Hi

Ißve had a chance to get hands-on the M10V. SPent half a day playing with it :) really enjoyed. Still, very new to P&P I canßt give a comparison or absolute value, but the software is quite intuitive to use. We skipped the standard parts and spent time on teaching in and placing
- 0402 and 0201 resistors and caps
- non standard parts like side mount tactile switches, mid mount USB ... reverse mount LEDs
- heavy, big parts like 90Amp Inductors (1.4x1.4cm, 8mm height), DC/DC modules and so on

finally, it handled all of this easily.

The part setup is very easy, 4 guided steps. The basic principle of the mashine is it has "on" working area. you place the board and all parts somewhere there. The automatic feeders reach just in this area and left and right side. i.e. Strip feeders are taught in by selecting first and last part and ammount in this row, done. All visual guided using camera. Bulk feeders are rectangular spaces where the parts can freely positioned within. After teaching the pattern, it will find it in this area. If the pattern allows for polarity mark to recognise, polarised parts can be used, too.

Of course, the automatic feeders are much more comfortable and quicker to set up, but, more expensive.

If I can allocate the funds, I will get one :)

Since I was so occupied using the mashine I had no time for pictures and videos, but, if you have specific questions, ask me - I asked a lot and got plenty of answers back ;)

Cheers
Linus
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by heli_linus on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:21 am

Hi

for those who like to know, the M10V has actual two cameras, one in the bottom and one attached to the head.

The head camera is used for teaching in positions, fiducials, bad marks, finding parts in the bin feeder and so on whilest the bottom camera is used for centering the picked up parts. Parts which are to big to be ssen at once can be centered by the two diagonal corners, first, centering one corner, then the second.

Cheers
Linus
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:26 am

no flying vision / Laser for the M10V ?

did you have a demo of the paste dispenser if they have one ?
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by heli_linus on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:15 am

Hi

well somehow, the vision is flying. The most manufacturer call the laser vision "vision on the fly" but this is a replacement for the bottom vision and only good for small parts, only does work up to a certain size. So the systems with vision on the fly end up with two cameras, as M10V and a laser on top. Advantage is only speed, since it can position the part while moving.

If you ever need the placement speed gained there I am pretty sure you can afford to matching mashine, though ;)

Cheers
Linus
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:29 am

I was just asking because the 7722 has it and it does a terrific job with a single camera and no laser. Parts up to 2512 can be easily centered with no tweak,
bigger parts like CT7343 tantalum are placed with high consistency after adding placement offset manually in the part definition, essentially the angle (done once and forever). This way, on a 31 part design, I only have to place 5 parts with bottom vision (TQFP, QFN, SSOP). Speed ends being a concern after a while what ever the amount you produce :lol:
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by heli_linus on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:30 am

Hi

well, apaolgize on this, I must have completely missed this feature. So the flying top cam does look from the side to the part and does centering? Does it then spin the part aorund one time to get it right? In result looks quite similar to how laser centering works.

Cheers
Linus
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:36 am

top cam cannot be called "flying vision", it's just "top vision" for teaching and fiducial. FLying vision is an extra camera looking by the side (also called side vision). It's mounted on the gantry as well. It's indeed similar to how laser alignment works
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by heli_linus on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:27 am

Hi

can 7722 let you decide which path the head goes from pick-up to placement? Or is it allways the shortest line?
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:37 am

I don't think so, it's optimized by their control card, based on motor speed and acceleration you can tweak. If my guess is correct, your question relates to heavy / big parts. Pickup schemes exist in both part definition and PCB programming to avoid part slipling during pickup and proper placement by applying extra pressure to free the part (if needed).
MAchine has 2 set of params for speed, one for speedy placement (flying vision), the other one for parts checked with bottom vision. Each sets defines X & Y speeds + accel + stroke speed and rotation speed.
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