Mdc 7722FV alignment problems
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:48 pm

Oh, just to be clear I have tried many permutations for Lv. 26, 27, 1, 126, 226...usually I try everything given in these forums first then post.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:57 pm

bmw330i wrote:What I meant by your settings was proper X, Y from the itg3200 manual and your FQN32 and then FQN16 values.

noted, that's what I though, all good.

I have not tried messing with the POTS since I would like to first try other options that do not require modifying the machine.

I understand, but I believe it's reverse thinking as some of your settings are really off. Illumination in your case is a problem and like bakerly mentioned (I didn't realize) your Z axis might be also too far from the focus point and your part is so small that it can't be checked.
You should not be afraid of touching certain settings as long as you know what they do. That being said, you can for sure wait for the final user's manual (next week) before touching anything.

Changing the Z position of the head shaft to the bottom camera is really nothing. Nozzle exchanger menu, edit mode, posi2, teach mode, check the nozzle alignment and adjust the stroke depth with u/shift u. Note the value when you are in focus then ESC twice (unless you want to validate a new alignment). Go in the constants, quick settings and check what you bottom camera scrub is, replace eventually with the value you manually adjusted (that's your new focus). Click ok and don't forget to do F2 to save it all.

The room was pretty dark. Maybe with more light in the room the setting for 126 may work.


:?:
#1) the machine is really insensitive to ambient lighting unless you point a flashlight to the camera. The head has side "blinders" to avoid external incident light to pollute the vision, and the local lighting of the camera is strong enough to not be sensitive to ambient lighting. FORTUNATELY ! :D (as it's the key to a successful vision)

#2) Finally, the machine shutters (smoked acrylics) protects the machine against excess / change of lighting but to be honest my bottom panel is for now disassembled as I need cut it to accommodate big feeders which arms currently prevent the lid to open properly. With or without it, it makes no difference on the vision for any of my parts.

#3) Like I posted above, problem is opposite : I believe your illumination settings are way too high, not too low.

@bakerly + @bmw : I saw the Z stroke of bmw in his screen cap (sorry for not seeing this earlier) and it's 180. If our machine HW is similar (I believe the head is at least the same) you should have the same value as mine (360). I have NO IDEA why it's not in focus but half of my value makes sense why the nozzle is so FAR currently.
I checked again the machine check list (it's a printed document) and the focus was set to 367 initially in 2010. The previous owner might have adjusted to 360, I'll check myself if 7 points adds up to a better focus but still, it's VERY close to my former settings.

which leads me to wonder if your constants are ok or just totally off. Did you get the machine with a PC and the software pre installed and ALL ? or just the machine and the vision card (frame grabber) ???
I also realized I got a data floppy disk with the machine. I'm wondering if your machine is simply NOT CONFIGURE because the calibrated constants are not installed.
I don't know what the install process is at MDC or manncorp, but the provided PC (if provided) might not be tested with the PnP machine itself and everything installed on it (PCs could be tested separately). I don't know if my floppy disk was provided as a constant backup or FOR THE USER TO INSTALL THEM to obtain a PC with the calibration data on it but it's a possibility.

If it's not the case, your PC has the stock install of the MDC software and many default constants.
I would check what you got with the machine, and I'll have a look to the provided CD-rom or provided media. You should have a disk/storage of some sort with the calibrated constants on them.

Side note @bmw : I checked my original CD and there are indeed more info / PDF on them. Mine has an add-on for the strip / cut tape (not the auto cut tape) as a small cut-tape feeder (5-7 lines) was provided. I believe that the setup of your auto cut tapes is described in the PDF on the CD (same PDF I linked in another of my post). Check what files you have there, the MDC printed manual is NOT just what was provided with the machine afaik.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Vincent,
I think this is an alignment problem. I posted on the other thread with photos about how I can't even place a 0603 resistor now. It rejects every time. I think it even placed this part before so this is new.
Very frustrating. I mean I feel like I am going backwards now without knowing why.
This is part 21, a 33.0 OHM 0603 resistor. Same settings you have for an R0603 in your parts definition. It is loaded as a reel on feeder #6. I did F8 and trained it's location. It just rejects the part every time with the same ERROR 1 llv 233. From the photo it seems the head needs to lift the part a little higher so it goes into the box defined. Is that the problem? it can not see the part?
Attachments
photo4.JPG
Error 1 llv 233
photo4.JPG (75.13 KiB) Viewed 2827 times
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:18 pm

you also have that side vision camera offset indeed.
There's a constant to set to have the crosshair in the middle of the part (mine was off too). Check constant K45 #1

I also notice that the nozzle tip height isn't correct neither, so the vision is checking the top of the part. The bottom of the bounding box should be aligned with the nozzle tip.
Check constants K6 (up positions, 2 values to configure for 2 nozzle sizes families). I think it can be adjusted during part testing, maybe with u/shift + u but I haven't tested. Still you can edit the constants by hand until it's properly setup.

I'm going to ask the question again : most of those things (aside the lighting) should have been configured and calibrated by MDC.

- did you get a PC from them ?

- did you install the machine on a different computer + fresh install of the software ?

- you should have a CHECK LIST on which the constants THEY calibrated for you are hand written

- you should have (somewhere) a disk / CD / flashdrive with those constants

have you looked for all that ?
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:34 pm

Hello,

Good to know this can be adjusted.

I did not see your questions before. I will answer:
- did you get a PC from them ?
a) Yes

- did you install the machine on a different computer + fresh install of the software ?
b) No, computer was setup by them (MDC).

- you should have a CHECK LIST on which the constants THEY calibrated for you are hand written
c) It is probably in Japanese. I remember a note on the machine in Japanese which I can not read.

- you should have (somewhere) a disk / CD / flashdrive with those constants
d) Yes, I have a CD, I do not see anything on the CD that looks like constants. Just some PDF files.
Attachments
photo5.jpg
Note on machine.
photo5.jpg (256.3 KiB) Viewed 2825 times
photo6.JPG
Files on CD
photo6.JPG (109.14 KiB) Viewed 2825 times
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:45 pm

Hello,

I just remembered. Maybe this is all caused by the software update?

I downloaded a .zip file that contained:
CONSTHELP.csv and CONSTHELPJ.csv and other files .exe some image files. This updated my software to the latest file from MDC.

Did this possibly cause the issue? Maybe I should rename the orig file back and revert back to 2.1.19?

NOTE: I tried changing the files back, same issue. So I went forward to the version from MDC website (2.1.23?)
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:35 am

the consthelp files are just the online help / info of the constant definition menu (F4). The update never touches the constant file which is named fconst7l.dat in my case.
Here's what MDC said :
Yes we test the machine with the PC we ship and data is also copied in floppy or USB memory.

You should have a printed copy / paper check list too. It's not the document you pictured. It's a 2-3 page check list written in english with manual annotations (the calibrated constants). That's at least what I got. It might be with your invoice and your other papers you got with the machine. I'm not sure if you got those, but you should have HW blueprints too. The checklist might be with those.

Also, like MDC said, you should have either a USB flashdrive or a floppy disc with the constants. This is not on the CD you pictured as it's just the standard install & documents for your machine type. Constants are provided elsewhere. I got a floppy disk with the constants.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:58 am

some more info from MDC.

** About missing PDF
Now all pdf's are included [on the software CD] but his case auto cut tape manual was not in CD but it is included in PC's desktop.

** About the Shipping Check List
Yes we included shipping list too and all data in CD. One my concern is he may copy wrong Fconst7l.dat (which is system constant) from CD since we had history that we attached all machine data in the floppy disk so the data in CD is just dummy data created when we made original installation disc but floppy drive becomes difficult to get now so we store the actual machine data in DIFFERENT DIRECTORY of CD. So if he copied fconst7l.data from main directory it is not the machine's data. (this may be confused customer so the latest CD's system data are overwritten by actual data and one sub directory DATA includes DEMO.dat)

you might want to check the constant file date and contents you have your HD. Those are just text files, you can see what you have in those with notepad++ or anything equivalent.
Bottom line is that :
1) machine should have the proper configuration / settings first place (they did tested / calibrated your machine with the PC they shipped to you)
2) you should have a paper check list (I'll try to scan mine to post) on which you have all what you ordered / got with the machine, AND important calibrated constants. I just hope (for you) that you kept that paper :-)

** Constants backup
All shipped machine data are stored in our main computer so it can reffered any time.

if you want to be sure about the calibrated data / constants you have vs what they calibrated at the factory, you can contact MDC directly so that they email you the constants. Still, you must have in your shipment a CD / floppy disk / flash drive with the constants backup.

hope this helps.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by Backerly on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:48 pm

Vincent, I am about to check the measurements etc but here is a pic of my current camera position:
bottom_camera.jpg
bottom_camera.jpg (146.44 KiB) Viewed 2765 times


I am going to check the settings as you pointed out but I am wondering if I may get better results by putting it at the top of the mount and refocussing it?
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:40 am

errr... my bad, common expression led you to bad interpretation (sorry) :)
Noted on your camera position. The camera position itself looks good.
The bottom camera "position" actually refers to the head position/centering above the bottom camera, so what I'd need is rather a screen cap. like I posted here
http://adafruit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=26353#p164665

It will show both centering and focus. Use a large nozzle like nozzle #3 so that we can see the nozzle wall (it helps to diagnose the focus).
Go in the nozzle exchanger menu, edit mode, select the Posi2 field and go in teaching mode. That will take you there. Then screen cap.
Good luck.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Hello,

I found the 4 page paper on the setup of my MDC 7712 (calibration/test). When I compare the values on the document with the values in the constant data they all match exactly.

Just an update. I will do the alignment steps soon. Time is a very limited resource as I have orders to get processed and shipped I have to work on before I have time to work on this.

I am however reading all the posts here to prepare first.
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:46 am

noted,
glad to hear that you indeed got those papers. Now for the flip side, some of the calibration seem to be off from the factory :?
You'll have to adjust nozzle height in side vision, horizontal offset (in pixels) and the mother of all your troubles (IMO) the nozzle height (so called "focus") in bottom vision.
It's really weird its been set that bad. Do you confirm you have the bottom camera "focus" set to 180 (ish) on your papers ? Unless the bottom vision system totally changed between the end of 2010 and early 2012, it's about half of the correct value (mine is 360 and focus is quite dead on as you've seen on my screen caps, as backerly underlined)

I took the freedom to use your flying vision screen capture to include in the manual to show what is a non aligned head :wink:
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:50 pm

vincentp wrote:noted,
glad to hear that you indeed got those papers. Now for the flip side, some of the calibration seem to be off from the factory :?
You'll have to adjust nozzle height in side vision, horizontal offset (in pixels) and the mother of all your troubles (IMO) the nozzle height (so called "focus") in bottom vision.
It's really weird its been set that bad. Do you confirm you have the bottom camera "focus" set to 180 (ish) on your papers ? Unless the bottom vision system totally changed between the end of 2010 and early 2012, it's about half of the correct value (mine is 360 and focus is quite dead on as you've seen on my screen caps, as backerly underlined)

I took the freedom to use your flying vision screen capture to include in the manual to show what is a non aligned head :wink:


Hello, sorry I was out of town on business. I have confirmed the settings in the Constant Data section. My value for K10 #2 is 270. I am still treading your notes and manual now but do not understand if a smaller number moves the head down or up. If my value is 270 should I try 280? 300? 260? When I input 280 I got a warning that changing that value could damage my machine. Is this true?

I got a bunch of orders that will keep me busy this week. I hope to find a few minutes to try out the value of 280. I also did as you said in the focus check and went to the nozzle menu then teaching mode. The crosshairs were off by a bit. I'll attach a screen shot. I'm not sure how to correct this as each nozzle (row) I selected was off just a little bit from center.
Attachments
nozzle.png
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by vincentp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:22 am

The focus (or scrub) is related to the stroke depth. Higher number makes the head going down.
I believe you can play with the stroke (u / shift+u) while in Posi2 calibration (no chip picked up). The only thing I haven't tested is if the stroke is stored (because in the nozzle calibration screen, there's a stroke parameter, mine is set to 0 which makes sense as stroke means nothing per say here) so I never tried to save the settings. However, it allows to adjust the head height, then note U value and set it in your scrub value.

270 sounds coherent as your former screen capture showed a QFN picked up, so the head was of course higher. The U I could read in the screen cap was 180. Let's say your QFN is 1mm thick (pretty common) which equals 100 x 0.01 mm motor steps, we get 280 which is relevant with your 270. But still, it's probably too low (head still too high). Focus must be adjusted visually, use the Posi2 calibration to play with the head height until you reach the right focus. If it's already in focus at 270, then I don't know as it still seem to be very far :? With such a wide angle lens, a couple of mm of distance change change a lot on the focus and vision scale.

you nozzle rack seems to be indeed offset. Nozzle changer calibration is described page 35, it uses teaching mode. Keep in mind this calibration is WORTHLESS if you haven't made a top camera to nozzle offset calibration as this is what is MANDATORY so that what you see with the top camera, crosshair and all matches where the nozzle will be when in nozzle mode. That calibration is detailed page 155. Process takes 2 minutes and will guaranty was you set visually matches where the nozzle will go.
Be sure to read my notes about the nozzle changer stroke depth page 37. Mine was too important and I had to fix it to stay away of any mechanical shock during nozzle changing especially with my new speed timings which are more "aggressive".

I informed MDC about all those calibration issues they are looking into it. For the Z (U) axis (the head height), MDC said that it's possible the belt tensioner could get loose, so check the belt retention system and eventually tighten it a bit and glue it with a small dab of epoxy at the junction of the retention plate and the belt itself. But I don't think it's this in your case, as we're talking about 1-2 mm and it's huge (I could understand loosing the focus on a couple of 1/10th mm due to the shipping).
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Re: Mdc 7722FV alignment problems

by bmw330i on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:54 pm

Quick update: I found the document that had the presets from the factory. When I go into the settings and verify they are all set exactly as per the document. Should I conclude I somehow changed the head height and focus manually somehow? I did once allow it to place 100nF caps on top of already placed 100nF caps. I did a test placement F6 and there was already a part. I'm at a loss how it just suddenly stopped placing a simple part like a 300R resistor.

I'm reading here Vincent about "Posi2 calibration (no chip picked up)". Which screen? The nozzle chg menu? F8 for train? I'm unsure where "Posi2 calibration" is in the software menus.
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