The Technology Transplant / Cy reconciliation thread

[isak]

i think everything have been said and now its up to Adafruit, first to forgive, second..make peace between u two.
if not in the middle east then at least here

what do u say guys ...? lets shake hands for a better world


(i will never forget this moment , Rabin, we miss u!)


and the rest of u guys..please dont interrupt, Cy and Adafruit are big boys, they can handle this by them selfs!

[adafruit]

Because of the avoidance and suppression of discussion (2 threads closed in short order), after Cy pointed me to his two eBay pages with his apology, I decided not to mention it on a forum thread.

hi robin,

that is not correct. this thread as well as the "Technology Transplant / Chahae Yasaena "chipforbrains" threatens & extorts adafruit" are open.
http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18854

the x0xb0x moderator phono locked the thread "Disappointed with Devil Fish attitude!" - we did not, but will open it if you would like.
http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18977

But my account had been altered so I could neither read nor send private messages. More such messages arrived while I was sleeping. Now I can read the messages and the first one is from adafruit, telling me I can use the forums but not to use the private message system for this TT matter.

that's correct you have a newly made account and you sent too many private messages in one hour. if you spam people the forum system can disable your ability to send private messages, as you noted you can read private messages. please do not spam members using the board's private message system. if you do this again your account may get suspended, if that happens please email us - but again, do not use the private message features to spam multiple people.

you also know our email address and phone number. and you can post here or create a new topic at any time. we respect your work and think you're doing your best to help your business, we think you may be confused by cy and TT which is understandable.

I can't prove anything absolutely, but I am sure it is not Cy who made the fake site and extortion letter. He has consistently stated it was a "friend" who did it, who he later identified as - "Mr He".

a "friend" using the same IP address and email addresses as cy?

robin, you required us to "prove" cy emailed us and many other things. all to your satisfaction, if you want anyone to believe cy has nothing to do with this despite the same IP addresses, emails, information from *directly from his ISP / hosting provider* and more - you'll need provide something more than saying "you are sure".

regardless, if you want to continue to believe this and say this - then you need to have cy who you are in constant contact with work with "his friend" to resolve this and transfer the domain names.

customers have emailed us and have shown us packages from "cy" that say "mr. he". keep in mind the fake adafruit site only had emails we sent to cy posted on the them, it's unlikely "his friend" would have all of cy's emails, all addressed to cy, all from a year ago.

I am not sure that Cy can access the forum site anyway - he indicated it was blocked by the Chinese government filter.

also not correct, cy can post here any time. we work with many people in china, including the same district as cy - they even have the same IP blocks. our site is not blocked by any chinese government filter.

cy can also email us and cc you if you'd like.

Adafruit stated that the fake site was on the same IP address as the TT site, but this is not the case and was not the case when I first saw the fake site.

it's the same hosting provider, on the same servers, same DNS, a forum member contacted cy / TT through the fake site and TT answered. the ISP said the site is owned by TT. you can review all of this in the forums. the ISP had cy's name / contact on an old support ticket requested the adafruit site "clone". cy works with TT, sends emails as TT, runs auctions as TT. cy's previous email address we have was used for the contact information the domain name (and the ISP also has this information).

perhaps you should ask cy to tell his "friend" to apologize and transfer the domain names? wouldn't cy be motivated to do this, why would cy continue to work with people that are harming him?

robin, you're being manipulated by cy to be convinced a "friend" did this. this is what children do when they are caught doing something. a "friend" did it.

we realize you have no choice as to where you get parts for your business and you said your livelihood partly depends on cy / TT but please think about all of this logically.

as we said before, this is a personal issue for you and you're obviously very involved since you're talking to cy on an almost hourly basis or at least daily it seems - please feel free to call us if you'd like.

I entirely agree that the control of the fake domain should be returned to adafruit.com. Last night, Cy described his friend's actions as juvenile, but its my impression that he was initially more supportive of the fake site - because both Cy and his friend are angry and frustrated with adafruit.

Whoever it is who controls the domain is a damn fool and should apologise to everyone for their malevolent actions. Returning control of the domain to adafruit.com would be a sure sign - probably the only true sign - they have grown up and recognised their mistakes.

as other forum members have said, cy and/or his "friend" should do this if they want any issues resolved. that to us seems like the logical next step and it would be exactly clear who is doing this since they would need to put their contact info in for the domain transfer.

this sounds like the one way for sure to end all of this.

thanks,
adafruit

[isak]

how are u Phillip?

i wanted to ask u few things?
why dont u forgive Cy?
why do u ignore my post about peace?
the way that he said he's sorry is not good enough for u?

i talked with Cy and i can say for sure it was not him that mad this fake site, i dont understand in IP's or URL's or what ever u brilliant guys talked about in the forum, all i have is my feelings and my feelings says that he didnt do it.
as i understand one of his people from TT made this fake site and Cy had to be the one who get it from u and all the guys from the forum.
i understand that u mad about Cy and TT but please dont be cold blooded man, u'r not a Terrorist!
BTW i dont have any business with Cy what so ever, he dont support me financially in any way!
i just dont feel ok with this whole deal.

about Dan, u said that Dan choose to post the group buy even when u told him not to until things will clear with Cy or TT, ok.. i didnt knew that and i guess i understand why u disable his account temporarily, but the way u choose to act was wrong for my opinion, i mean about crucify Cy and Dan..? why..? all u had to do is DELETE the group buy post and u can do that with a finger press on the mouse! but u choose to stick it and made them suffer.

as Robin said u have much power then TT have and u can destroy him if u like, i'll ask u this..Phillip, do u want Cy / TT to go down?

[adafruit]

as i understand one of his people from TT made this fake site and Cy had to be the one who get it from u and all the guys from the forum.

isak, if someone works for cy at TT and made the sites, stole our images, used our name, registered our names - then cy needs to have the domains transferred.

as other forums members have said - if peace and resolution is what cy / TT wants, that's a good next step.

about Dan, u said that Dan choose to post the group buy even when u told him not to until things will clear with Cy or TT, ok.. i didnt knew that and i guess i understand why u disable his account temporarily.

again, each day we worked with dan and he fully understood and agreed with how we handled a group buy on cy's behalf using our forums. with dan's help everyone got their kits and we did not need to remove dan's account or any content on this site from forum members. this was almost a year ago.

as Robin said u have much power then TT have and u can destroy him if u like, i'll ask u this..Phillip, do u want Cy / TT to go down?

cy and technology transplant have all the power for their business to succeed or fail.

thanks,
adafruit

[isak]

cy and technology transplant have all the power for their business to succeed or fail.

i agree but u need 2 people to Tango

[altitude]

Ok, i thought this thread was about a resolution, not more finger pointing..

[isak]

Ok, i thought this thread was about a resolution, not more finger pointing..

me too.

[phono]

the x0xb0x moderator phono locked the thread "Disappointed with Devil Fish attitude!" - we did not, but will open it if you would like.
http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18977

let me clarify why I closed that post. I felt that the subject of that thread was not fair on Robin and also since the original thread was locked I felt that we shouldn't be dragging this out. I also feel this thread is just doing the same.

It is clear that CY should post his apology here in the forums and transfer the domain, then we can get this whole thing behind us and go back to our friendly little community, anything less and this will never end.

And i have no vested interest in anything, i have nothing to do with adafruit beyond dontating my spare time for free to the forums helping out where i can.

[adafruit]

let me clarify why I closed that post. I felt that the subject of that thread was not fair on Robin and also since the original thread was locked I felt that we shouldn't be dragging this out. I also feel this thread is just doing the same. And i have no vested interest in anything, i have nothing to do with adafruit beyond dontating my spare time for free to the forums helping out where i can.

we agree with phono closing the thread and would have as well, phono got to it before we did - it was off topic and we've asked that commenter to try not do that again, if robin wants it unlocked we'll also do that as well. robin you can email or call us at any time.

we very much appreciate phono's time and efforts here and we want to once again thank phono for all the help here in the forums and in the x0xb0x community.

phono is a neutral person, respected in the community who also agrees cy / TT needs to transfer all the adafruit names. this is the quickest way to end all of this.

any reasonable person will agree that cy / TT should transfer the domain names to us (adafruit) and *then* posts getting updated is the right solution, we are willing to spend the time and effort to make it happen and we think we've demonstrated we have so far.

cy waited 7+ months to update his auctions, he can easily transfer the adafruit names and this will be resolved in 48 hours or less now.

It is clear that CY should post his apology here in the forums and transfer the domain, then we can get this whole thing behind us and go back to our friendly little community, anything less and this will never end.

we agree with this as well.

we (adafruit) do not require cy / TT to post any apology here, that is up to cy and TT. it would be a nice gesture that's good for their customers and for themselves, we realize cy / TT are the only supplier for folks like robin, it would be good for the community and customers for cy and TT to resolve this.

so...

1)cy / TT transfer all the adafruit names they registered to adafruit, then...
2)adafruit will update any posts with cy / TT's apology from the cy/ TT auction that cy / TT requests via email or via the forums

we will do this, this is a promise. i think we've shown we will follow through and follow up with anything we say we will do.

robin, isak - since you talk to cy / TT all the time, feel free to pass this along.

this seems fair to us and it seems what the community wants.

thanks,
adafruit

[AcidDr0p]

1)cy / TT transfer all the adafruit names they registered to adafruit, then...
2)adafruit will update any posts with cy / TT's apology from the cy/ TT auction that cy / TT requests via email or via the forums

we will do this, this is a promise. i think we've shown we will follow through and follow up with anything we say we will do.

robin, isak - since you talk to cy / TT all the time, feel free to pass this along.

this seems fair to us and it seems what the community wants.

thanks,
adafruit

YES!

BOOM there it is!

It's all up to CY and Technology Transplant now! Do the right thing Cy!

[isak]

robin, isak - since you talk to cy / TT all the time, feel free to pass this along.

i will do anything to fix things between u two, so yes i will pass it on.

peace,
Isak E.

[robin-whittle]

I am writing to correct what are arguably misrepresentations of my
position and to answer adafruit's message. But first some
observations:

Phil (or whoever writes as "adafruit") has so far shown no interest in
debating the merits of the statements made from that account
regarding Cy and TT which I argue are unreasonable and at times
slanderous. (Please see the 18854 thread for details).

Nor has adafruit offered to, or discussed the merits of, archiving and
removing the "BUYER BEWARE" thread 15930 which is so prominent
in Google.

Cy has apologised and fixed some problems with his eBay ads.
Adafruit insists he writes an apology on their forums and that the
fake domain be transferred. I agree the fake domain should be
transferred by whoever controls it, but I think its rather fussy to be
demanding exactly what forum and form the apology is delivered in -
especially while stonewalling on the examination of the matters
mentioned above which are of most concern to Cy / TT.

Phil (I assume), you wrote, in part:

>> Robin-Whittle wrote:Because of the avoidance and suppression of
>> discussion (2 threads closed in short order), after Cy pointed
>> me to his two eBay pages with his apology, I decided not to
>> mention it on a forum thread.

> hi robin,
>
> that is not correct. this thread as well as the "Technology
> Transplant / Chahae Yasaena "chipforbrains" threatens & extorts
> adafruit" are open. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18854

I found the two threads I wrote in regarding TT were closed rapidly.
In the absence of any other communications, I figured it best to
communicate with you and some of the other folks via the private
message system, since I only had email addresses for one or two of
those people.

> the x0xb0x moderator phono locked the thread "Disappointed with
> Devil Fish attitude!" - we did not, but will open it if you would
> like. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18977

If you like. I have written plenty and don't intend to write to that
thread.


>> But my account had been altered so I could neither read nor
>> send private messages. More such messages arrived while I was
>> sleeping. Now I can read the messages and the first one is from
>> adafruit, telling me I can use the forums but not to use the
>> private message system for this TT matter.

> that's correct you have a newly made account and you sent too
> many private messages in one hour. if you spam people the forum
> system can disable your ability to send private messages, as you
> noted you can read private messages. please do not spam members
> using the board's private message system. if you do this again your
> account may get suspended, if that happens please email us - but
> again, do not use the private message features to spam multiple
> people.

My messages were pertinent and directed to people I had already
been discussing the same matter with on a forum thread. I think
you are mistaken to describe my use of your private message
system as "spamming". The system still has "You are not authorised
to send private messages." That's fine, since I don't intend to.


> you also know our email address and phone number.

I don't know your or Limor's email address. There's no email
addresses on the contact page, and though I guess I could search the
Web for addresses, that doesn't mean you want me to contact you on
any such addresses I find. I have never received an email from you
or Limor but would be happy to discuss things privately with you via
email. Since you both seem to resistant to examining your own
actions and how they affect Cy / TT, I don't feel particularly like
talking to you about this by phone.

I got involved in this because I wanted to get the fake site removed
ASAP. Whether it was made by Cy or not, it was a stupid,
destructive, hateful and time-wasting thing which needed to be
knocked on the head ASAP. I knew there would be many people
clamouring for this to be done, but I figured that by writing to Cy and
posting the message verbatim on the 15930 thread, I might be able
to accelerate the site's demise.

I then discovered some sense of the depth of the bad blood between
Cy / TT and adafruit, and the problem with his eBay page attribution,
thanks to Altitude describing this clearly on the Analogue Heaven
mailing list. So I mentioned the attribution problem to Cy.

Then I tried to convince you to consider the impact of the 15930
thread and your statements therein.

> I have never and you can post here or create a new topic at
> any time. we respect your work and think you're doing your best
> to help your business,

Thanks. I am also trying to enhance your ability to do business - and
Cy's.

> we think you may be confused by cy and TT which is understandable.

Maybe Cy did make the fake site. I can't prove otherwise.

He has made changes and apologised.

You have been fussy about the form of his apology - and you have
failed to discuss my constructive critique about some of your
statements about Cy / TT. These concerns are shared by some other
people with a long history in this forum.


>> I can't prove anything absolutely, but I am sure it is not Cy
>> who made the fake site and extortion letter. He has consistently
>> stated it was a "friend" who did it, who he later identified as -
>> "Mr He".

Actually, I am not 100% sure.

The fake site caused no damage to Adafruit Industry's reputation and
little or no confusion to your customers. It caused a great deal of
damage to the reputation of Cy and Technology Transplant.

The fake site is a separate issue from the topic of thread 15930,
and your avoidance of discussing that thread looms large above this
whole discussion.

What's your problem in discussing statements made in the past? Do
you never make mistakes? Is adafruit some hyper-intelligent entity
whose output functions always exactly match the asymptote of
perfection? Do you never overshoot the mark? Do you never utter a
word that, at the time or later, turns out to have been sub-optimal?
Does your backspace key sit there forlornly, year-after-year, unused
and gathering dust?

Accolades and awards are entirely due to you because you do Good
Work. But is there some rule of the cosmos which means re-
examination of your past actions is such a pointless exercise that
there's no need to mention why you don't do it?

I believe your statement about Cy / TT:

** it appears he has only done harmful things to the community
** and customers.

is slanderous. It appears in http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15930
which is currently (for me at least) the first non TT website result
when Googling for "Technology Transplant".

I understand you want control of the fake domain and I agree you
should have it. You stated that there were other fake domains, but
haven't given details. Email them to me if you like and if they exist
I will confirm that this is so on the forum, without divulging the
details.

Must Cy admit every fault you allege he has, on your very own forum,
to your satisfaction, before you will examine your potential mistakes?

> a "friend" using the same IP address and email addresses as cy?

The IP addresses I saw in his emails were scattered amongst a range
and none had the address you quoted.

If Cy really did make the fake site and demand money from you, why
(once the site's files have been deleted) is this an impediment to
examining your own slanderous and unreasonable public statements
about him?

> robin, you required us to "prove" cy emailed us and many other
> things. all to your satisfaction,

Maybe he sent it, maybe it was a friend. I can't tell.

> if you want anyone to believe cy has nothing to do with this
> despite the same IP addresses, emails, information from *directly
> from his ISP / hosting provider* and more - you'll need provide
> something more than saying "you are sure".

I am not 100% sure.

Do you need complete and utter capitulation on your terms before
you reconsider how fair some of your own past statements are?

> regardless, if you want to continue to believe this and say this -
> then you need to have cy who you are in constant contact with work
> with "his friend" to resolve this and transfer the domain names.

I have repeatedly urged him to ask his friend to pass control of the
domain to you.

> customers have emailed us and have shown us packages from "cy"
> that say "mr. he". keep in mind the fake adafruit site only had
> emails we sent to cy posted on the them, it's unlikely "his friend"
> would have all of cy's emails, all addressed to cy, all from a year
> ago.

Sure, you can go on and on about the evils of Cy and use this as a
smokescreen to avoid examining your own mistakes. When people
who you perceive as your friends, or who you don't, but who
nonetheless support you, as I do, tell you there are some mistakes
which should be examined . . . . .

>> I am not sure that Cy can access the forum site anyway - he
>> indicated it was blocked by the Chinese government filter.

> also not correct, cy can post here any time. we work with
> many people in china, including the same district as cy - they
> even have the same IP blocks. our site is not blocked by any
> chinese government filter.

OK - but maybe Cy is so pissed at you guys for various reasons that
he doesn't want to post to your forum, or write to you. I can't do
anything about this, and maybe his experience of you is that you are
impossible to get along with. Maybe he doesn't want to post to a
forum where you are in control, closing threads as you wish. I figure
you or I would be reticent about debating things on a forum
conducted in Cantonese or Mandarin.

> cy can also email us and cc you if you'd like.

I urged him to write to you.

>> Adafruit stated that the fake site was on the same IP address
>> as the TT site, but this is not the case and was not the case
>> when I first saw the fake site.

> it's the same hosting provider, on the same servers, same DNS,
> a forum member contacted cy / TT through the fake site and TT
> answered. the ISP said the site is owned by TT. you can review
> all of this in the forums. the ISP had cy's name / contact on
> an old support ticket requested the adafruit site "clone".

Sure, but you avoid admitting you were wrong to state
(http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.ph ... 4&start=54) that the sites were
on the same address:

~~ the "fake" adafruit site is hosted on the same server as
~~ technology transplant,


> cy works with TT, sends emails as TT, runs auctions as TT. cy's
> previous email address we have was used for the contact information
> the domain name (and the ISP also has this information).

Maybe so. Maybe Cy registered the fake domain, made the
offensive site and mailed you an extortion letter. He has since
apologised and made significant changes.

If the fake site was his, then when it comes to the all-important
matter of public perceptions (reputation) he shot himself in the foot.
Its been a time-waster for Adafruit Industries, but it hasn't harmed
you or your reputation. Do you want to go on and on about how
much his actions harmed and threatened you when the site's
offensive and misleading contents were quickly deleted?

> perhaps you should ask cy to tell his "friend" to apologize and
> transfer the domain names? wouldn't cy be motivated to do this,
> why would cy continue to work with people that are harming him?

I have done this repeatedly and you are misrepresenting my position
to write as if I have not.

> robin, you're being manipulated by cy to be convinced a "friend"
> did this. this is what children do when they are caught doing
> something. a "friend" did it.

Maybe so. Maybe Cy has bats in his belfry and friends in his head.

He and his TT colleagues also do Good Work. They do essential,
unique, valuable work - with great investments and risk. As far as I
know, they can't make a lot of money from it all. Their eBay
feedback is good and they do lots of things far beyond x0xb0xes.

He or his friend shot themselves in the foot and were a PITA for you,
threatening you with ongoing fake site harassment etc. That lasted
about two days, I think.

Previously, I understand they were a PITA for you regarding the
burden of supporting people building kits - but I understand other
people sold kits too. Surely most people building these kits for the
first time need a lot of support.

Is there some kind of generally unmentioned source of tension
between Adafruit and TT? I could imagine Cy being in a very good
position to find and purchase obscure dual transistors and other
obsolete TB-303 parts, to the point of there being too few available
for Adafruit to continue making x0xb0x kits.

He has is complaints against you and you against him. You are
widely respected and have a prominent forum, which you at times
use in ways which damage his reputation. AFAIK, he doesn't write
about Adafruit Industries in any public forum, or even in private
messages - at least to me. I had no idea there was a dispute
between him and you. By accident and/or design, his eBay pages
were disrespectful and inadequate regarding Adafruit, but I think that
is in the past.

Cy has made changes and apologised for his or his friends mistakes.

You?

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[adafruit]

Adafruit insists he writes an apology on their forums and that the fake domain be transferred. I agree the fake domain should be transferred by whoever controls it, but I think its rather fussy to be demanding exactly what forum and form the apology is delivered in - especially while stonewalling on the examination of the matters mentioned above which are of most concern to Cy / TT.

hi robin, please read our previous message. it's clear cy / Technology Transplant are not likely to ever post here, we get it. we do not require any apology from cy or TT. cy / TT does need to transfer all the adafruit domains, that's it.

they spent a lot of time registering fake adafruit domains, making a site with our photos and graphics, photoshoping BANNED images and emailing us demanding $100,000 - surely they can spend 20 minutes transferring the adafruit domain names.

if they start this on monday it will be resolved on tuesday.

I don't know your or Limor's email address. There's no email addresses on the contact page, and though I guess I could search the Web for addresses, that doesn't mean you want me to contact you on any such addresses I find. I have never received an email from you or Limor but would be happy to discuss things privately with you via email. Since you both seem to resistant to examining your own actions and how they affect Cy / TT, I don't feel particularly like talking to you about this by phone.

again, please review our previous messages - limor can be reached via [email protected] - she also has posted messages regarding this issue including this one. if you call us, we will put you on speaker phone and we'll both talk to you - you'll find we're both motivated to resolve this, cy and TT need to transfer the adafruit names they registered for that to happen.

I understand you want control of the fake domain and I agree you should have it. You stated that there were other fake domains, but haven't given details. Email them to me if you like and if they exist I will confirm that this is so on the forum, without divulging the details.

you can look these up yourself, just review who registered adafruitindustries.com and you can also search and see the other ones cy / TT registered. adafruit.info, etc…

Must Cy admit every fault you allege he has, on your very own forum

no, please have cy / TT transfer the adafruit domain names to us - he does not need to post here at all. it's a good idea for cy / TT to post here for their own benefit and we think it would be good for the community, but we do not require it.

Is there some kind of generally unmentioned source of tension between Adafruit and TT?

not at all, we've done our best to document everything here. cy / TT refused to credit our designs they sell, sadly - that can be part of making open source hardware or anything and sharing with the world. we were never mad, only disappointed, that was almost a year ago. cy / TT also suggested they be the only "official x0xb0x seller" and then they would credit our designs. that too was BANNED. ladyada has given so much it was very sad to see her abused like this by cy and TT.

now cy / TT registered and created fake adafruit sites using our images and logos and demanded $100,000 from us. that's not acceptable, and cy / TT need to transfer the domains.

are we mad? no. are we motivated to make sure they will not use the adafruit domain names to create fake sites and extort us again? yes. we will calmly and professionally work with all the tools and resources we can.

if cy / TT wants to hurt their business as you've described over $40 or so worth of adafruit domain names, that's up to them - you are saying this is damaging their business. ok, we've outlined what they need to do.

we think they should transfer the domains immediately and we have no issue with updating the pages on our site with cy / TT's apology as well as updating the thread to have the text describing the resolution and the word "resolved" added to the title.

we have done everything openly and properly given the circumstances, it's time for cy / TT to do the same. again, you can call or email us at any time - we would prefer you post in the forums of course.

thanks,
adafruit

[robin-whittle]

Hi Phil,

You wrote:

> hi robin, please read our previous message.

I just replied to your previous message.

> it's clear cy / TT are not likely to ever post here, we
> get it. we do not require any apology from cy or TT.
> cy / TT does need to transfer all the adafruit domains, that's it.

You already have an apology from Cy, though perhaps not in the form
or forum you prefer.

> they spent a lot of time registering fake adafruit domains, making
> a site with our photos and graphics, photoshoping BANNED
> images and emailing us demanding $100,000 - surely they can spend
> 20 minutes transferring the adafruit domain names.

I entirely agree that whoever registered these domains which are
derivative of adafruit.com should turn them over to you.

> if they start this on monday it will be resolved on tuesday.

Yes, but when will you reconsider some of the things you wrote about
TT which I argue are unreasonable?

You seem to think that an adequate professional public response to
the various problems you have had with Cy/TT and/or his friends is
to speak publicly only about the great trouble this has caused you, the
malevolence of whoever did it, how it is surely Cy etc. etc. You don't
seem to think that professional behavior should focus first on your
own potential failings, and fixing them - which you can do without
dependence on anyone else's actions.

> limor can be reached via [email protected] - she also has posted
> messages regarding this issue including this one.

Is "adafruit" just you, Phil, or is it sometimes Limor too?

> if you call us, we will put you on speaker phone and we'll both
> talk to you - you'll find we're both motivated to resolve this, cy
> and TT need to transfer the adafruit names they registered for that
> to happen.

Sure, but why won't you discuss on the forum the merits of archiving
and deleting thread 15930, including statements you made which I
keep mentioning which I think are unreasonable and are a likely cause
of most of the angst Cy (and his friend or whoever) has about you?

>> I understand you want control of the fake domain and I agree
>> you should have it. You stated that there were other fake
>> domains, but haven't given details. Email them to me if you
>> like and if they exist I will confirm that this is so on the
>> forum, without divulging the details.

> you can look these up yourself, just review who registered
> adafruitindustries.com and you can also search and see the other
> ones cy / TT registered. adafruit.info, etc.

OK - here's what I found. No-one has registered adafruit.biz,
adafruitindustries.info or ada-fruit.com. I found the one you just
mentioned and one more, so so I know of three, via
http://www.betterwhois.com :

adafruitindustries.com
adafruit.info
adafruit.net

I see Limor registered adafruitindustries.net on 2011-01-04.


adafruitindustries.com
2010-07-04 hezhiya [email protected] futian, 518048
Webserver: 209.59.165.162 (same hosting company as TT uses).


adafruit.info
2010-07-04 hezhiya he zhiya [email protected]
he zhiya futian shenzhen Guangdong 518048
No webserver.

adafruit.net
Moniker Privacy Services 20 SW 27th Ave. Suite 201 Pompano Beach
FL 33069
Webserver: http://www.adafruit.net 208.73.210.29 in or near LA.
This launches a pop-up window, makes my ZoneAlarm firewall warn
me off the site, and has a bunch of links for "Send Flowers", "Low
Carb BANNED" etc. The privacy policy links to http://cdn.dsultra.com/t/privacy_ds.htm
as do similar links for webservers on adjacent IP addresses. This
seems to be part of a revenue-generating commercial service
by http://www.domainsponsor.com, which is the subject of a
user forum: http://www.dnforum.com/f215/ .

My guess is whoever has this domain runs a bazillion other domains
on servers on this range of addresses. See an October report of
193 webservers which were running on this IP address:

http://sameip.org/ip/208.73.210.29

I clicked five of them and every one had a similar set of links.

Do you think one is registered by Cy too? My guess is it is just a
domain someone chose to add to their collection they use for
domainsponsor revenue generation.

>> Must Cy admit every fault you allege he has, on your very own forum

> no, please have cy / TT transfer the adafruit domain names to us
> - he does not need to post here at all. it's a good idea for cy /
> TT to post here for their own benefit and we think it would be good
> for the community, but we do not require it.

I agree - but what more can I do than I have already done to
encourage the transfer of these domains?

>> Is there some kind of generally unmentioned source of tension
>> between Adafruit and TT?

> not at all, we've done our best to document everything here.
> cy / TT refused to credit our designs they sell, sadly - that
> can be part of making open source hardware or anything and sharing
> with the world. we were never mad, only disappointed, that was
> almost a year ago.

OK.

> cy / TT also suggested they be the only "official x0xb0x seller"
> and then they would credit our designs. that too was BANNED.

That's a business proposal based on delusions of grandeur, I think -
but its a private matter you declined, and doesn't involve him having
done anything to harm your reputation, or profit from your work in
some unreasonable fashion.

> ladyada has given so much it was very sad to see her abused like
> this by cy and TT.

The second point doesn't seem to be "abuse". Obviously the x0xb0x
kits or finished units should be labelled with proper accreditation, as
I guess should any adverts or downloadable documentation. "Abuse"
seems like a rather dramatic word to use for failure to properly
acknowledge authorship under and open-source licence.

There's 9 results right now for an eBay search for x0xb0x, three of
which are for accessories or parts. The other 6 are:

290516602247 Complete x0xb0x. Full credit. (This is Cy.)
270685467311 Complete x0xb0x. No credit. (Second-hand dealer.)

150546430476 Modded x0xb0x. No credit. (queenie_nyc1004)
150544722699 Complete x0xb0x. No credit. (yello612, UK.)

300511995687 Programmed CPUs. No credit.
250747567897 Programmed CPUs. No credit.

Apart from the second-hand dealer, all these sellers are involved in
repeat sales of hardware and/or software designed by adafruit.

Looking at recent the feedback of the repeat sellers of complete
x0xb0xes:

queenie_nyc1004: Sold 12 x0xb0xes since 2010-09-24.
yello612: Sold 8 x0xb0xes since 2010-10-02.

Is this any different from the "abuse" you suffered from Cy? I
searched your forums for these eBay account names but there were
no results.

> now cy / TT registered and created fake adafruit sites using our
> images and logos and demanded $100,000 from us. that's not
> acceptable, and cy / TT need to transfer the domains.

OK, but let's wind back to thread 15930, which you started on 2010-03-29
- 3 months before two of these fake domains were registered. You
titled it "BUYER BEWARE". I don't understand why you were so
alarmed and made such a fuss. Your response included this grave
and unsupported accusation followed by a statement I think is
slanderously at odds with reality:

** past and current customers of his and people who have worked
** with cy sent us dozens of horrible stories. it appears he has
** only done harmful things to the community and customers.

On 2010-07-03, Helyx525 reported that Cy's group buy x0xb0xes
were well built and had stickers with the credit you required. On
2010-07-29 Isak wrote positively on his experience with Cy and with
the x0xb0xes from the same group buy, and likewise reported the
credit sticker with link.

Altitude wrote (2010-09-16) about problems with Cy (contrary to
the positive report in an earlier message, I recall) and izze wrote of
problems with emails not being responded to for weeks.

The thread must have been locked after that, and I don't know when
you made it sticky, as an Announcement - where it remained until
recent days.

As a Texan I know is wont to remark, "Something ain't fitting here.
It just ain't fitting!".

Why on Earth did you post such derogatory and alarmist things about
Cy, when you don't seem to care a hoot now that other people on
eBay are selling dozens of x0xb0xes without giving adafruit any
credit, at least in the eBay pages?

What was going on between you and Cy, and with Helyx525 who (like
I am now) apparently waded in between you and Cy trying to reduce
tensions, that he wrote (2010-07-03), addressing you (Phil Torrone)
I assume:

~~ Mr. Torrone, please do not send me any more personal email on
~~ this matter. The last time I tried to mediate between you and
~~ Cy I got parraded around the forums on a rail for not taking
~~ only your side. It seems to me that you want to present only
~~ the facts that make Adafruit look like a victim and leave out
~~ the rest. I still assert that this was a simple
~~ misunderstanding and you guys blew it way out of proportion.

It seems I am getting your critical attention now for not seeing things
exactly as you do, and for my pesky habit of reminding you that some
of what you wrote about Cy is disrespectful, unreasonable and
slanderous.


> are we mad? no.

You were very angry in March and later months and your writing
recently seems directed at dramatising the hurt Cy has supposedly
caused you, without a moment's public reflection on how your actions
may have been unfair and contributed to this dispute.

> are we motivated to make sure they will not use the adafruit domain
> names to create fake sites and extort us again? yes.

Sure, as you should be.

But there's nothing Cy or anyone else can do with fake websites to
significantly diminish your reputation or affect your ability to do
business. Whoever made the fake site makes himself look like an
ass or worse, and inevitably tarnishes the reputation of TT far
more than any damage they could do to Adafruit Industries.

> we will calmly and professionally work with all the tools and
> resources we can.

OK - and as part of this calm and professional handling of a difficult
dispute, in your next message you are going to debate the merits of
the prominence of thread 15930 and the comments you made in it,
as part of contemplating whether you too made mistakes.

> if cy / TT wants to hurt their business as you've described over
> $40 or so worth of adafruit domain names, that's up to them -
> you are saying this is damaging their business.

Indeed - whoever in the electronic music field registered domain
names like yours, and then made the fake site and demand letter, is
a damn fool and was behaving like a jackass. They owe everyone an
apology. This applies to adafruit.info and adafruitindustries.com.
I suspect the adafruit.net domain has nothing to do with you - its
just a domain name for attracting eyeballs to advertising-based links.

> ok, we've outlined what they need to do.

I agree they should be transferred to you. Are you going to pursue
whoever registered adafruit.net too?

> we think they should transfer the domains immediately and we
> have no issue with updating the pages on our site with cy / TT's
> apology as well as updating the thread to have the text
> describing the resolution and the word "resolved" added to the
> title.

OK - that's not a bad idea, if it is to the front of the title.

> we have done everything openly and properly given the
> circumstances,

Apart from publicly considering that maybe you have been
unreasonable to Cy.

> it's time for cy / TT to do the same.

Cy has made changes and apologies.

It seems I am not the only one looking for some recognition from you
that perhaps your over-the-top unreasonable response to Cy,
together with the Google prominence and your sticking that thread
as an Announcement (for months, I guess) is an important factor in
Cy (and his friend or whatever) being angry with you and feeling
disempowered - watching the TT business reputation suffer for no
good reason, despite all the good work they do.

I guess admitting mistakes is not your strong suit, given that
Helyx525's words sound like a pre-echo of the latest fracas.

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[adafruit]

You already have an apology from Cy, though perhaps not in the form or forum you prefer. I entirely agree that whoever registered these domains which are derivative of adafruit.com should turn them over to you.

again, we do not require an apology from cy / technology transplant. we do require they transfer the adafruit domains they registered. once this is completed we will update the posts with additional text and consider this resolved, and we will indicate so on any post related to this issue.

Is "adafruit" just you, Phil, or is it sometimes Limor too?

adafruit is limor (ladyada) and phil.

adafruitindustries.com
2010-07-04 hezhiya [email protected] futian, 518048
Webserver: 209.59.165.162 (same hosting company as TT uses).

that's correct. it's cy / TT, their ISP confirmed this - it's the same account paid for by cy / TT, same contact information. the emails from cy / TT are from the same persons, same IPs, same everything.

robin, the contact info you just posted with "[email protected]" is one of cy's many contacts - he has used this on packages from himself / TT. we've had this contact info for over a year. google for it if you'd like. you're not being reasonable robin.

the "fake" adafruit site had our emails we directly sent to cy.

if you continue to be convinced cy / TT has nothing to do with this and it's a mysterious "friend" perhaps you should spend equal time emailing with cy's "friend" as you are spending here, that seems fair and could help resolve this.

why don't you email cy's "friend" and post the response here? you're in contact with cy and TT, why doesn't this "friend" not transfer the domain names for his friend cy?

I agree - but what more can I do than I have already done to encourage the transfer of these domains?

it sounds like you've encouraged cy / TT the best you could to transfer the adafruit names. it also sounds like cy is unfortunately fooling you and manipulating you, we're sorry he is your only source for parts for your business but please think about this critically and logically.

Indeed - whoever in the electronic music field registered domain names like yours, and then made the fake site and demand letter, is a damn fool and was behaving like a jackass. They owe everyone an apology. This applies to adafruit.info and adafruitindustries.com.

this is cy and TT. it sounds very foolish to say things like "whoever did this" - as if it's a mystery, it's completely clear who did this, when, why, how and what they need to do if they want this resolved.

since cy or TT will only talk to you, feel free to send along this message, again. we do not require an apology from cy / technology transplant. we do require they transfer the adafruit domains they registered. once this is completed we will update the posts with additional text and consider this resolved, and we will indicate so on any post related to this issue.

thanks,
adafruit