There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.

What do you think about this misleading practice?

Let's take some deep breaths and calm down
5
33%
It is perfectly normal and everything is still the same
2
13%
It is normal for new owner, but it's probably bad for Eagle
2
13%
It is unfair to hide the fact that Eagle can still be used as freeware
1
7%
It is unfair, but we will use Eagle anyway
0
No votes
It is end of Eagle, good bye old friend
0
No votes
Eagle was inappropriate for us even before that
3
20%
We don't care
2
13%
 
Total votes: 15

User avatar
westfw
 
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by westfw »

I dunno; I think you're over-reacting. This is a matter of "don't trust the sales office when the manufacturer has their own web page." The freeware version is still prominent on both cadsoftusa.com and cadsoft.de (and the "non-profit" version as well, which is under-appreciated.)

Since the Farnell acquisition, nothing has been eliminated, and they've added the 4-layer "freemium" eval version and the lower-cost yearly license option. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, or if there are hidden agendas out there, but it's difficult for me to see the ACTUAL results so far as being anything other than a net win for ... well, everyone.

I think Farnell would have to be extrordinarilly stupid to change a distribution policy that has succeeded in making EAGLE the defacto standard for the Open Source Hardware "movement." (Not that that would be impossible. I think there are members of the OSHW movement that are particularly silly for complaining that EAGLE isn't open source itself...)

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

May be I'm over-reacting. It is true that cadsoft[.de|usa.com] is still there, but I'm afraid that very soon just a few people will still know these web-sites, because sales don't even bothering to put proper link to manufacturer web-site on their web-sites and advertisement materials...

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jchristensen
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:45 am

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by jchristensen »

I answered "We don't care" in the poll, not that I really don't care, more because there wasn't an option for "Let's take some deep breaths and calm down." :wink:

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

JChristensen wrote:I answered "We don't care" in the poll, not that I really don't care, more because there wasn't an option for "Let's take some deep breaths and calm down." :wink:
OK, I added this option too (but it zeroed all results, sorry)

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

Another observation: CadSoft had stopped advertise Eagle in "Circuit Cellar" magazine in 2009 and never started again...

smindinvern
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by smindinvern »

I do have to say that I've never liked the fact that pretty much all open source designs are available exclusively in eagle. I appreciate the fact that they intend to continue supporting the free version, but it's also very likely that the software won't be around forever, or at least won't be free forever. Things happen, businesses are sold, come under new management, etc. I'm glad to see that they're transitioning to an open and documented format though. As someone else said, at least then eagle designs can be converted to other formats.

Really though, eagle isn't the only format out there. We already have a de facto standard format, it's called RS-274X. It'd be nice if people would use it ;) Then at least people like me could stop whining :)

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westfw
 
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by westfw »

We already have a de facto standard format, it's called RS-274X.
I don't think rs-274x is even close to being a replacement for the eagle drawing file format(s).
It's still a photoplotter control language without any of the metadata needed to implement parts, design rules, or nets...

(Based on the internal structure of EAGLE as exposed by its User Programming Language features, it should be pretty easy for it to produce an open human-readable file structure... An experienced ULP programmer could probably produce something in a week. (but the documentation and standardization effort needs to be bigger than the programming effort for it to be useful in the long run.)

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

westfw wrote:(Based on the internal structure of EAGLE as exposed by its User Programming Language features, it should be pretty easy for it to produce an open human-readable file structure... An experienced ULP programmer could probably produce something in a week. (but the documentation and standardization effort needs to be bigger than the programming effort for it to be useful in the long run.)
I totally forgot about ULP! I found these scipts (just symbols to gEDA and symbols and schematics to KiCAD):
http://blog.mithis.net/archives/pcb/23- ... -converter
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/ulp/eagle2kicad-0.9b.ulp
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/ulp/eagle2kicad_sch.ulp
And these (conversion both schematics and layouts to image formats SVG and EPS):
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/ulp/eagle2svg-1.1.ulp
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/ulp/epscdraw_411.ulp
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/userfiles/ulp/eps_export_411.ulp

User avatar
westfw
 
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by westfw »

the ULP capability of EAGLE is wonderful.

EPS is supported "natively" by the CAM processor, BTW. As far as I can tell, it's relatively easy to add other devices to the CAM processor as well, as long as the implement some relatively common drawing primitives (I implemented "ps-drillaid", a postscript with pilot holes device.) I'm not sure of the relative advantages of CAM vs ULP driven output; I imagine CAM does the layer separation in common code, while ULP has more decision-making ability.

smindinvern
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by smindinvern »

westfw wrote:I don't think rs-274x is even close to being a replacement for the eagle drawing file format(s).
It's still a photoplotter control language without any of the metadata needed to implement parts, design rules, or nets...
sure it's not a replacement. then again, it could be, ie stuffing metadata into comments, etc. but that's not the point. open source designs are being distributed in an (until now) closed format, with no open tools available to edit them. gerbers might not be ideal, but they're still editable, and completely open.

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

Interesting point. I don't see any problem to write a software that will allow to edit Gerbers/Excellons directly (I recently wrote viewer/multiplier that works with Eagle output). Why it is not yet available in open source world? Or this field of business is already occupied by high-priced consulting companies that will do anything to stop free competition?...

P.S. Google found some Gerber editors: Gerbtool (part of Orcad), Viewplot (430 euros), GraphiCode (495 dollars).
And nothing open source or at least for free...

adafruit
 
Posts: 12151
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:21 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by adafruit »

Shaos wrote:Interesting point. I don't see any problem to write a software that will allow to edit Gerbers/Excellons directly (I recently wrote viewer/multiplier that works with Eagle output). Why it is not yet available in open source world? Or this field of business is already occupied by high-priced consulting companies that will do anything to stop free competition?...

P.S. Google found some Gerber editors: Gerbtool (part of Orcad), Viewplot (430 euros), GraphiCode (495 dollars).
And nothing open source or at least for free...
a gerber editor would be pretty handy, this is a great opportunity for you to come in and write a great tool for the OSHW community!

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

adafruit wrote:a gerber editor would be pretty handy, this is a great opportunity for you to come in and write a great tool for the OSHW community!
I will think about that, thanks for advice

P.S. I just found very strange product that may use gerbers as input files - LayoutEditor. Strange thing is its "Basic Version" licensed under GPL and also there are COMMERCIAL binary-only "Reduced Version" and "Full Version". I don't understand how they are co-existing together (all these versions even have ONE installer). See http://www.layouteditor.net/license.html and http://www.juspertor.com/buylicenseusd.html

User avatar
westfw
 
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by westfw »

gerbers might not be ideal, but they're still editable, and completely open.
That is VERY much like claiming that (software) object code is "completely open" because you can edit the binary file in hex with something like gdb...

(several of the vendor-provided "alternates" to arduino have implemented their "open source" hardware by providing gerbers for the PCB. I'm not impressed.)

Shaos
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: There is such thing as "freeware" Eagle [poll]

Post by Shaos »

Actually Gerber is much more simple format than executable program in binary form

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