Re: Powah!

by Zener on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:46 am

asgard wrote:The next, obvious, question is this: what would be your level of pain for buying a Powah, and how many would you likely be buying?

An old rule of thumb for retail pricing is 5x the parts. I don't know that I personally would ever buy any but I think people can use such a thing. I am thinking you could have singles as you have shown, duals, 4x and 8x. Pricing something like 5.00, 7.50, 10.00, 12.50 respectively. So that is in line with what modeller just said (while I was still writing this reply.) If it's open source then I don't think anyone has to pay for the design. I don't know all the details there, but I would be happy with the bragging rights personally. Of course, with the round corners, Apple will likely claim they own the whole thing...
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Re: Powah!

by BruceF on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:00 pm

WethaGuy wrote:
asgard wrote:...buy somebody else's design and put it on the website, although that is an attractive option, if available...


hmm.... maybe you should consider not using the OSH gear logo if you intend to license the design. The copyright on the front of the board also appears to be at odds with the concept of OSH. The gear logo is usually used as a symbol denoting the design is open and available to all to reproduce or mod.


Zener wrote:If it's open source then I don't think anyone has to pay for the design.

Yeah maybe, but see point number one in Phil Torrone's article on the subject of OSH licensing in Make.
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Re: Powah!

by modeller on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:01 pm

Zener wrote:An old rule of thumb for retail pricing is 5x the parts. I don't know that I personally would ever buy any but I think people can use such a thing.


The only thing I ever thought about making and selling myself wasn't electronics, it was birdhouses.

I can make several neat styles, but when I looked into what they would reasonably sell for, vs. all the time and trouble it took me to make them, I decided I'd just keep on making them for myself. It just wasn't worth all the time and trouble. I hope your idea works out better.

What the heck, if you do make some, I'll send you $10 for one via PayPal. Let me know.
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:54 am

This is the (slightly :) updated Powah circuit that allows for higher switching current and voltage levels. The logic part of this circuit is protected by a 5.1V barrier diode. The turn-on and turn-off button press requirements are individually programmable by different RC circuits. The first (left-hand) gate-pair is needed only to ensure the power startup sets a known logic state.
Attachments
P01-112F_Powah2.jpg
P01-112F_Powah2 updated circuit.
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Re: Powah!

by Zener on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:55 am

I like the original one better. Less is more...
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:10 pm

I have fit the Powah-2 on a .51" x .81" board. The Powah-1 is a .5" x .5" board. Not too much more than the original. Being generous, as these things go, I have calculated a 4x parts cost value for the Powah-1 at $5.95.
The Powah-2 works out at $13.95.
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:10 pm

Hmm the talk has all dried up when I mentioned specifics and brass tacks. I guess the things I do are not "fashionable" and beneath interest. Depressing.
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Re: Powah!

by Zener on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:46 pm

You have an order for 1 pc as I recall. There is a kitbiz forum where you might explore the business aspects of it I suppose.
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:05 pm

O.K. modeller (I'm an N kinda guy :) you can suss out at ebay, I suppose. I haven't sold anything that way before, therefore there will be a learning curve :(
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Re: Powah!

by BruceF on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:43 am

asgard wrote:Hmm the talk has all dried up when I mentioned specifics and brass tacks. I guess the things I do are not "fashionable" and beneath interest. Depressing.

Zener's right, "General Project help" isn't the kind of forum where I would expect to be able to pitch a product. And selling with a schematic and a price estimate is going to be difficult in any event, I'd think.

If I were you, I'd put together a proper product pitch and try to sell this thing through a site like Tindie. I'd also seriously consider whether the added features are worth more than doubling your product's price; this may be a case where simpler and cheaper is better, or that might just be me.
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:51 am

Understand that the pricing I gave was based on a generous interpretation of the "rule of thumb" for manufactured goods, being 4x and not 5x. Out of that margin I am paying for the board fabrication, pick-and-place, and assembly costs. Each of those points will involve payment of at least one tax or another. I am not yet incorporated or anything like that so I will have to pay sales taxes at all steps, and unlike Adafruit I do not have my own in-house board fab, pick and place, reflow, or mass production electrical test gear in my shop to carry some of these costs. Only after the first few thousand units (as if) will there be enough capital to outlay some of those things for in-house use.
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Re: Powah!

by Zener on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:23 am

You might lower your cost by eliminating the routed corners and panelizing with scoring between boards. You should consider making duals and quads also.
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Re: Powah!

by asgard on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:47 am

Dual and quad configuration of something this small would have an even more limited use than anticipated (multiple signal multiplexing? Mode and select switches?). I have done the math. Costs (and price) does not significantly reduce unless I can justify producing enough panels in a batch to make more than a thousand units.
A panel would fit 153 units, so at minimum a full 10-panel order would be required. Judging by the Ebay sale pending that is unlikely, since not one bid for the one unit has come in as of today. Unless OSHW projects just don't sell that way. There is no additional cost to me for the rounded corners. If and when I start doing whole panels then it will add costs for electrical testing, pick and place, and shipping both ways. Looking at suppliers such as Uline it is also not banned for the shielded zippy bags, even at this size.

If I can't sell even one unit (so far) then I am simply not going to throw good money after bad on this.
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