Help with designing a new project?

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bkk
 
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Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

Hello, I am interested in developing some new projects in areas of the sustainability arena. I have the mechanical and creative design skills but lack the electronic expertise to complete these projects. Is there help available to diagram electronic components in order to complete these projects? I have not purchased anything yet but will purchase the parts needed to make these electronic components. If a purchase is necessary to become eligible for tech support I am happy to do so but would not know what would be the best way to proceed without help. I wish to use the models that are created to raise awareness of simple ways to help preserve our environment and provide educational and employment opportunities as well.

Thank you for your support,
Sincerely,
Bryan Knowlton

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zener
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by zener »

I think as long as you are a prospective customer you can get free help here. However, engineers sometimes live in the world of specifics. My observation in working on product development is that customers are often preoccupied with how something will do what they want, rather than what the engineer really needs to know, which is: What do you want?

If you can make a very clear specific list of the features that your system must have, then some nice person will be able to advise how that could be done. However, I don't think anyone will write all the code for you, but they could get you pointed in the right direction. So that is my .02

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

If this is something you plan to do commercially, you'll probably want to post it on the Adafruit Jobs Board: http://adafruit.com/jobs/

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

First Project Adafruit



Thank you for your response. I will do my best to be as specific as possible please understand that I know little about power sources and controllers and that is where I need the advice. Overall the project is simple. I need a solar cell to power a battery that will run a small water pump that can be timed or run intermittently. I was drawn to your site through my extensive research where I finally found this instructional which has been most helpful and inspired me to inquire with Adafruit. Please note- http://learn.adafruit.com/usb-dc-and-so ... r/overview

I have a small model in mind and a medium model in mind. I am not sure how the power source, charge controller, pump system operational components would differ or if one is more feasible over another i.e. advantages and disadvantages one over the other or if both are possible the first or micro pump operation we will call (1CCPO)the second or medium pump operation we’ll call (2CCPO). One of my greatest challenges I have run into is sourcing product so I am still working on that but for example purposes I will show my current pumps I have found that will be the variables that I believe will determine the overall system differences i.e. solar cell, charge controller, battery and micro controller or possibly something more simple as simpler and smaller the better.
First micro-pump-operation/ 1CCPO
The first pump I found (http://www.micropumps.co.uk/)
I am concerned that it might get clogged due to some soft solids that may run through the pump so I am seeking a centrifugal impeller type micro pump wet end (not found yet) that can be attached to a motor such as this one, http://www.hobbypartz.com/exceedrc2.htm ... OgodZDkAhQ
Question: would there be much difference in design between the $8.00 range motor and the $16.00 range? Or this type
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_rc ... PerPage=50
and if it ran too fast could I reduce the speed in a simple way?

If I need the pump to run for 15 minutes once an hour or so do I need a micro controller of some sort or can I use a capacitor that the charge controller would charge after the battery is full that the right sized capacitor would slowly charge an be sized to run the needed time amount then when the sun went down the battery could slowly charge the capacitor until it intermittently fired or how the controller would work independently (I am reaching here???)
Which solar cell, which charge controller, which battery, controller and or capacitor?
For 1CCPO

And Two:

For 2CCPO
Pump such as this
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/35985 ... p.html?s=p

Would my solar cell need to be considerably larger? Would I need a say 6volt sealed lead battery such as
http://www.amazon.com/Powersonic-PS-610 ... B0002ILJYQ
And how would that affect the system like the charge controller and so on // or can a lipoly battery run a motor like a small 6v or 12v mini motor???

Thank you for your help

Bryan

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zener
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by zener »

We need to know the part we don't know, which is what you are trying to do. Then we can give some guidance. You need to pump some water every so often. How much water? What volume and what flow rate? What distance? Is the water going up? What pressure? Is the water being forced through something? What are you doing with the water? Pumps can be a tricky thing. There are (hopefully) graphs that tell you the flow vs the pressure. But sometimes these things are hard to predict. And the electrical consumption varies also. This will the hardest part of the project to figure out I am guessing.

Once we figure out the power demands (if ever) then the battery/charger/panel calcs are fairly straightforward. I am not saying they are simplistic, but they are more straightforward than the pump issue probably.

The control is the easiest part probably.

If you can answer the questions above then hopefully some pump experts can get an idea of what we are up against power wise.

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

Hello Zener, I am really appreciating your help. I just got done writing a full description of the project and answering your questions on the design and then I had a question of my own and a tinge of concern. Is this post public or for your eyes only or at least the staff of Adafruit. Are you staff of Adafruit or a helpful participant on the forum? I would trust that there is confidentiality: Non Disclosure, so on, how does this work? should it be of concern? honestly this part of capitalism does give me distress. We would hate for someone to be able to prevent us from making something because we did not protect ourselves. I would hope that if our little project is a success that we might be able to make some kits for educators and it could be a win win for Adafruit as well. I am sorry for even bringing it up but I have had some very uncomfortable experiences in the past involving this subject. Please put my mind at ease. Adafruit Professionalism right?
Thank you,
Bryan

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zener
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by zener »

Here are the facts as I know them:

1) I am NOT associated with Adafruit in any way. I am just your average knucklehead. The staff all have the pink color background on their posts.

2) There is no assumption of confidentiality on this site or any other AFAIK.

3) If this is for commercial use then the job board is probably the way to go, as was suggested.

4) Whoever you end up dealing with, if you want a non-disclosure agreement with them (NDA) then you need to get the party to sign one.

Good luck.

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

OK Zener, does that mean you are not going to help me now or would you still be willing to give me the basic component design needs? It is a simple project and I don't even know if anything will come of it but I would like to try if your still willing.
Pumping water from one 5 gallon bucket to another 5 gal bucket 2-4 feet in the air through a 1/4 tube once every hour as described previously.

Peace,
Bryan

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zener
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by zener »

I can try to answer any questions you post here.

How much water? The whole bucket? So, the source bucket is on the ground and the destination bucket is about a meter above that?

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

Yes thank you,

The pump will be at the bottom of the lower bucket so the pressure of the water in the lower bucket will help. What I need to know is the solar cell charge controller for li poly battery what size I don't know or if several can be put together either the flat one or cylinder and how to control or time the pump or system design so I know what parts I will need. Is the system design that was shown on Adafruit close to what is needed except the controller or is there a better way?


What else do you need to know?

Bryan

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

Hello Zener, thank you for your support. This little project I was hoping to create was thought of for teaching a principal in sustainability and not meant as a product to market. There was a second there I imagined it could turn into an income stream to help our endeavor but that does not seem realistic anymore and could interrupt the process of creation in the end. I was not anticipating having to learn electronics but it now is becoming apparent that if I am going to teach a principal using this model I will have to learn this part of the component as well. It looks as though I have found the right place because now that I have had more time to explore this site it seems to me that Lady Ada has a similar mindset and I will be looking into purchasing some tools and kits that will allow me to understand this process as well. I appreciate your offer anyway though. Thanks

Peace,
Bryan

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zener
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by zener »

So we are still going?

As far as what charger and what battery, it has to do with the demands of the pump. In theory, moving 5 gal of water up 1 meter would not use that much energy. I ran a calculation on a random website which indicated that to move 5 gal of water up 1 meter would use about .05 Wh. If you need to do this 12 times, then that is .6 Wh. If we x5 for pump inefficiency (I'm guessing...) and we double it again for useable battery capacity and realistic charge level, then we get 6 Wh, still not that much. This battery is stated to good for about 10 Wh: http://www.adafruit.com/products/328 so that could be enough, but it really depends on the specific pump. Have you located a pump that runs on 4VDC ? It might be difficult to find one that is sized exactly as you would like.

As far as the control, I think you might want to sense if there is any water left to pump. You can do this with level sensors of different kinds, but you can also sense the motor current. So that means you probably need a microcontroller. The easiest way to experiment with that is use an Arduino.

So I think you need: Solar panel, battery charger, battery, pump, Arduino. For me the biggest question mark is the pump. Maybe there are some others here who can help with that part. I can only take this so far, so hopefully others will chime in.

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

All Right Zener,

What do you think about this pump Model
BLP23 Voltage (v/DC)4.5~12

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/59567 ... _Pump.html

Is this close?
Please See Specs

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lyndon
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by lyndon »

I bought this pump last summer and finally got around to using it this weekend. It's nice and quiet and doesn't use much power. I'm switching it with a ULN2803. However, using a flowmeter (uncalibrated!) it doesn't quite live up to the 3.8L/min spec. More like 2liters/min

I have another that's similar to the one you linked, but I haven't gotten around to looking closely at it just yet.

bkk
 
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Re: Help with designing a new project?

Post by bkk »

Thank you for the post, the pump you purchased says its 12 volt and may be too large but I saw on the add next to it a smaller coffee maker pump that is 6 volt but I don't know if it is still to large but the one I posted prior was 4.5 and I hope it will work. What do you think Zener?

Bryan

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